SMAC-DG Political Compass

[Anodyne]

Hmm.. Junta should have tremendous Economy-penalties. -3 at least.

[Maniac]

Well I figured a military regime (which I called Junta because it sounds cooler IMO...) could be just as well Planned as FM and as such has no prerequired economic policies, so no economic boni or mali. But they do spend a lot of resources at military stuff, so -2 Industry does seem justified.

[Anodyne]

Well, just present me with one example of a military junta with its economy NOT going towards horse's ass...

[Method]

are you going to make it so that it suggests a particular party?

[moomin]

Originally posted by Ade
Well, just present me with one example of a military junta with its economy NOT going towards horse's ass...

The canonical answer being Pinochet's Chile, of course.

[moomin]

Maniac, I find your classification interesting, but at least as biased and assumptive as the ones that came with SMAC.

[Maniac]

Unfortunately post-WW2 history is the period I know least about, but wasn't Argentina also quite succesful for some time? This has of course changed lately...

Moomin, I of course had to make some compromises between realism and gameplay. For example, I made the SE choices of Totalitarian (PS-Fundy hybrid), Planned and Power more attractive as almost no one (on Transcend MP difficulty level...) chooses them for a long period of time.

Some effects of course don't have a real good reason, but I found them necessary for balance, eg -2 Support for Technocrat.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by Maniac
In case anyone is interested, this is how I would organize SE in an earth scenario of mine. It has 6 fields. Two of them have four choices. The other four have two choices each, but they are combined to create 2x4 instead of 4x2 axises, everything together resulting in 16 choices:

Res: Research
Gro: Growth
Pol: Police
Pro: Probe
Eff: Efficiency
Ind: Industry
Eco: Economy
Pla: Planet
Mor: Morale
Sup: Support
Tal: Talent

Social Politics
Democratic: +2 Res, +2 Gro, -3 Pol
Totalitarian: +2 Pol, +2 Pro, +Eff, -2 Res

State Structure
Centralist: +2 Res, +Ind, -2 Pol
Confederate: +2 Pol, +2 Eff, -2 Ind

Economics
Free Market: +2 Eco, -2 Ind, -2 Pla
Planned: +2 Ind, +2 Gro, -2 Res

Foreign Trade Policy
Protectionist: +2 Talent (unused SE factor), +2 Pro, +Ind, -2 Res
Open: +1 Eco, +2 Res, -2 Pro, -2 Tal

Ruling Class
Technocrat: +2 Res, +2 Eff, -2 Sup
Harmonic (leftish green guys): +2 Pla, +2 Tal, -2 Gro
Junta: +2 Mor, +2 Sup, -2 Ind
Merchant: +Eco, +Ind, -2 Mor

Army (I'm not entirely content with that one, but couldn't find another good axis)
Levée-en-Masse: +2 Sup, +2 Pro, -2 Mor, -2 Gro
Conscript: No effects
Professional: +2 Mor, +2 Pla, -2 Sup
Robotic: +2 Gro, +Pol, +2Tal, -4 Sup

I think this is much better than the original Firaxis SE choices...

Yeah, but less balanced as well. Take for example a dictature/centralist/planned/open/junta/levée en masse, that IMHO looks like USSR :
Res: Research +2
Gro: Growth 0
Pol: Police 0
Pro: Probe +2
Eff: Efficiency +3
Ind: Industry 0
Eco: Economy +2
Pla: Planet 0
Mor: Morale 0
Sup: Support 4
Tal: Talent -4

Doesnt look really "realistic", actually...
Its just an example, but I think it shows this cannot be taken before many improvments.
Despite that, I think the SE categories you made are intersting for the test : we can make a test based on each categories tending to one or several options, rated on a percentage.
Ie results for Pandemoniak :
Politics : Libertarian 99% Authoritarist 1%
Social Structure : Centralist 20% Confederate 80%
Economics : Planned 60% Free Market 40%
Foreign Trade Policy : Open 95% Protectionnism 5%
Ruling Class : Technocrat 30% Harmonic 67% Junta 1% Merchant 1%
Army : none at all (Pacifist 99%)
We could try to arrange the diverse options, and write the test so that it gives results in that type (each category tending to one or several options).

EDIT :
Before you comment it :

Economics : Planned 60% Free Market 40%
Foreign Trade Policy : Open 95% Protectionnism 5%

IRL, I dont support Free Market because it has never been proved it was possible : state protectionnism has always been stronger than the simple will of having free markets.

[Maniac]

Did the USSR have an open foreign trade policy?? I would expect them to be very protectionist.

Anyway, I don't see how you reached those stats.

Total/Planned/Centr/Open/Junta/Levée is:
Research: 0
Growth: -2
Police: 0
Probe: 0
Efficiency: +1
Industry: +1
Economy: +1
Planet: 0
Morale: 0
Support: +2
Talent: -2

Hmm. They cancel each other out in a most remarkable way...

I IRL dont support Free Market because it has never be free because of protectionnism.

I'm afraid I don't understand that comment due to bad grammar. Could you please edit it? I'm rather interested in your reason.

Edit: I think I understand it after all...

[Pandemoniak]

I must have missed something somewhere, anwyay

USSR would rather be :
Research: +2
They were really good at that, space race, etc...

Growth: +1 or +2
I think there was some kind of policy about birth being encouraged

Police: +4 or more
Well, it was a police state

Probe: +2 or more
KGB... KGB...

Efficiency: -4 or less
Corruption disaster

Industry: +2
Because of Workers, of course.

Economy: -2
Maybe even more. Thats one of the main reasons of the USSR fall, after all. But maybe we can say its because of corruption ?

Planet: -3
Tchernobyl was after the dissolution of the USSR, but many pollutions happened before.

Morale: +1
Just for the good propaganda of Eisenstein, they deserve a +2

Support: -2
Heavy cost of maintenance obviously. Again, wasnt it due to Unefficiency ?

Talent: ??? I still havent figured out what it stands for

[Maniac]

Let's change Open to Protectionist. Then the stats are:
Economy: 0
Research: -4
Probe: +4
Talent: +2
Growth: 0
Police: 0
Efficiency: +1
Industry: +2
Planet: 0
Morale: 0
Support: +2

Economy 0. Since that's the lowest stat you can get in this system (just as in Firaxis'), it seems correct.
Research: Come on! Please state one other field they were good at besides space.
Probe: I agree!
Talent: creates extra happy people. Well, that was at least the intention of their ideology...
Growth: I learned that Russia had a very small population growth
Police: still rather high compared to democratic regimes. Perhaps I should switch Centralist's -2 Pol to -2 Eff. That would give the USSR a higher police rating and more corruption.
Efficiency: see above
Industry: I agree they deserve a high rating. Without a lot of their resources wasted on the military it would even be higher!
Planet: well I was thinking about giving -2 Planet to Planned and give FM -2 Talent instead. But really, there can be given arguments both for giving Planet/Talent to FM as to Planned. Don't know what to do there.
Morale: When looking at the sorry state the Russian army is in nowadays... You could always consider USSR's army Consript. That would result in +2 Morale.
Support: +2. They supported a large army.

Also know that I deleted the efficiency penalties for planned/PS on purpose, as I wanted those choices to be viable for other factions besides the Hive.

[Pandemoniak]

Whatever, its useles for that political compass test. What do you suggest about improving these categories and sub-categories ?