Punishment Spheres Poll

[Crisler]

Taking aside my mantle of Commissioner for a moment let me ask a question. When the Fundamentlaist ask for the Fundy SE to be in place people scream bloody murder about how terrible it is on personal freedom and rights. Now granted these people are uninformed but that is beside the point.

Now we are talking about sticking someone in a thing DESIGNED to cause needless pain and torment and these same people are for it?

Does this not just sound wrong to anyone else?

E.L. Crisler
First Commissioner

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by Crisler
Taking aside my mantle of Commissioner for a moment let me ask a question. When the Fundamentlaist ask for the Fundy SE to be in place people scream bloody murder about how terrible it is on personal freedom and rights. Now granted these people are uninformed but that is beside the point.

Now we are talking about sticking someone in a thing DESIGNED to cause needless pain and torment and these same people are for it?

Does this not just sound wrong to anyone else?

E.L. Crisler
First Commissioner

Personally, my opposition to the Fundamentalist SE choice stems mainly from the fact that I do not believe the government has any place in determining and dictating morality; as well as the research penalty. But ultimately the choice will be made by everyone, and everyone will get their opinions heard.

As for the use of Punishment Spheres in scenarios such as the one brought up by the P4 the use of a Punishment Sphere to keep order temporarily is the most logical choice to quell the Drone riots until the proper accommodations can be provided that will keep the population happy. But as I stated before, such a scenario is unlikely to come into play, but nevertheless we should have all tools at our disposal to deal with it, and this includes the use of Punishment Spheres.

Though our arguments against or for it at the moment are pointless seeing as what the majority decide will become policy, and though we may not ultimately agree with it, for the moment we will have to go along with it (though as it stands it is a tie).

[Crisler]

So rather than working quickly to stop the drone issues before they can occur we should waste resources and time to produce a system none of us want to use but will have just in case?

Sorry guys there is no logic here. You make sure to rotate production in such a way that we keep each base in production of facilities that will make sure we have zero or little drone issues.

If we do have a drone issue rather than punishing the people of the city for our failure as leaders to prepare, we bite the bullet and drop production there for a bit, switching drones over to specialists in an effort to stop the riot.

Once it is stopped we move as quickly as we can to produce the facilities needed to keekp the population happy when we send them back to regualr work.

There is ZERO reason for the use of the Punishment Sphere. It is a toll that shows a player lacking skill or with no quams for the atrocity type implications. A skilled player and leadership can plan for and prevent the problems that would call for such a device.

I have expressed a willingness to compromise on my thoughts of using a Fundamentlist SE> I will push for it but am prepared to entertain other ides. On the use of Punishment Spheres there is no discussion, no compromise. With my last breath I will fight this down, with all the power of Commissioner I will work to abolish this as an option.

E.L. Crisler
First Commissioner

E.L. Crisler
First Commissioner.

[Voltaire]

So rather than working quickly to stop the drone issues before they can occur we should waste resources and time to produce a system none of us want to use but will have just in case?

Well if we’re not going to use it then what’s the problem with not banning it?

Sorry guys there is no logic here. You make sure to rotate production in such a way that we keep each base in production of facilities that will make sure we have zero or little drone issues.

Yes, we will eliminate drones, and so what’s the problem with not banning PS seeing as we won’t have a need for them?

If we do have a drone issue rather than punishing the people of the city for our failure as leaders to prepare, we bite the bullet and drop production there for a bit, switching drones over to specialists in an effort to stop the riot.

Fine, but again then why ban Punishment Spheres seeing as we wont use them?

Once it is stopped we move as quickly as we can to produce the facilities needed to keekp the population happy when we send them back to regualr work.

There is ZERO reason for the use of the Punishment Sphere. It is a toll that shows a player lacking skill or with no quams for the atrocity type implications. A skilled player and leadership can plan for and prevent the problems that would call for such a device.

See above questions.

[Crisler]

For the same reason we make murder illegal, sure most people never do it so why have the law. How about stealing. Something that is a crime against another person is a crime no matter what and the PS are a crime we as a society should not allow. By banning them we stop all future discussion of their use and we ensure that this atrocity is never given a chance to be performed.

E.L. Crisler
First Commissioner

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by Crisler
For the same reason we make murder illegal, sure most people never do it so why have the law. How about stealing. Something that is a crime against another person is a crime no matter what and the PS are a crime we as a society should not allow. By banning them we stop all future discussion of their use and we ensure that this atrocity is never given a chance to be performed.

E.L. Crisler
First Commissioner

True, murder is illegal, unless carried out by the state (this is the case in the United States as it stands). Capital punishment is accepted as a valid punishment for a crime by some countries. Furthermore, you yourself have stated that we will have no use for them, then why should we ban it seeing as we will not have a chance to perform it as you yourself have stated?

And even if we do ban them at this point, all discussion on them would not be stopped. This issue could be brought up again at a later date and the people could choose to amend the constitution. And thus far the NO side is winning this poll, though it is still early to tell the outcome.

So why don’t we stop discussion on this issue for the time being and reconvene on it again IF is comes up?

[Archaic]

Coming out of character for a moment, I'd like to raise a quick point here that was brought up in another thread. PS's aren't actually considered atrocities under the UN charter, as evidenced by the lack of sanctions or negative consequences (The trade off between Talents + Research & Drones isn't exactly a negative consequence. If you went and built the thing somewhere, the trade off is obviously more in your favour.). Therefore all this talk about torture is rather irrelevant. Obviously, dispite whatever ethical or moral implications you may *think* it has, it obviously doesn't have them, or they've been deemed of little consequence considering the advantages these PS's can bring *when used properly*.

Another point to consider, no one is saying we should put one of these in every base, so that research penalty from one is going to be rather insignificant faction wide.

[Gnool]

I don't think they're an atrocity. If you've got a base full of unruly drones who won't stop rioting you've got to do something about them. If they didn't want to punished they shouldn't have rioted in the first place

[Juliennew]

We should really close this debate for the moment. All the time wasted to debate of this is time that is not usefull to get the game's rolling. And like I said in the CCCP thread, it isn't the work of the constituate assembly to determine the morale policy of our faction. Their only work is to create an efficient government.

[moomin]

Must we keep that banana nonsense up here?

[DeathByTheSword]

I agree it is to civ like this is SMAC!

[Maniac]

Let's have fungal gin!

[MrWhereItsAt]

What does it matter? Ban it now, ban EVERYTHING now, in accordance with the UN charter ( we are the Peacekeepers, right?). If we want to revoke things, we will do so later on, if the people want it so. No biggy.

[The Bloody Baro]

Well If my party gets official. Then as president of the Power of the Warrior faction I approve the use of Punishment Spheres as a viable means of punishment for repeating offendors and serious crimes such as murder, rape, arson, etc.

President Vladimir Harkonnen of the Power of the Warrior faction

[Andemagne]

NO Pspheres!