Base trading/gifting between humans?

[Maniac]

Up until recently, the only way bases could trade ownership between humans is by conquering them. However Kody recently wrote the program Codicil, and with that it should be possible to gift or trade bases to another human (IIRC by turning them into an AI, doing the gift or trade and immediately turning them back into a human - the faction involved won't suffer any negative effect from that process). So the question is simple: Should we allow trading or gifting of bases between humans in this ACDG?

Five days to vote.
(There hasn't been much discussion about this subject, so I just immediately started an "official" poll. But if someone wants to bring a point or concern to the discussion after all, we could also do a repoll later and consider this an informal information-gathering poll. )

[Kody]

Yes, but need limitations. Like a base once traded cannot be traded again for 50 years or something. Also that the person recieving the base, needs military unit in the base.

Otherwise people will attempt to continuously trade bases between each other, or it'll be possible for a faction to save another even though they're on opposite sides of the world.

[Maniac]

Ah yes, continuous base trading or saving factions on the last minute was indeed also a point of concern for me. But your suggestion that they must have a military unit in the base to trade it sounds a good solution. A no-trade embargo for 50 years after sounds a bit high though IMHO, as who knows 50 years may be more than half the length of the game.

A point people thinking of trading bases need to keep in mind though is that when you gift away a base, your base count doesn't decrease by one, so you keep some more bureaucracy-drones than you normally would have had. This will probably or hopefully make sure that base trading or gifting will only be used for extraordinary circumstances (eg a peace treaty involving the return of some conquered bases to its original owner - this would've been great in the previous ACDG ), and not be used for massive exploits and continuous base trading.

[Skanky Burns]

Provided it doesn't lead to cheese tactics, I don't see why not. I'll leave off voting until more people have discussed the issue and presented arguments against.

[Chaunk]

I really can't think of any arguements against except that it just won't happen :shrug:

Voted YEA!.

[GeoModder]

I agree to the possibility of base trading, under the condition that a base can't be traded to another team again for at least 20 turns, the same as council proposal turns. I don't see the need for a military unit of the receiving faction in the to traded base however.

No opinion however on how offen a base can be traded to an AI, but that point is fairly moot I suppose.

[Illuminatus]

Yes, but military unit is needed in that base to trade.

[GeoModder]

Why? When I offer a base to an AI, and a defender stays behind it transfers more offen then not to the AI as well in the deal.

[Kody]

When I say 50 years I mean for that particular base, not for all base trading. Maybe that is excessive, but 20 years could work I guess.

Why? When I offer a base to an AI, and a defender stays behind it transfers more offen then not to the AI as well in the deal.

I mean a military unit of the other faction. That way the faction recieving the base needs to first move a military unit there before the trade can occur. So if you're halfway across the world you can't receive a base until one of your units moves there.

So it's like taking military control of that other faction's base, only without declaring war.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Why? When I offer a base to an AI, and a defender stays behind it transfers more offen then not to the AI as well in the deal.

Hmm - that's never been my experience for land bases. My units are immediately transported to my next nearest base, and often the gifted base will sit empty for many turns (except where the giftee is in vendatta with another faction, whereby it immediately gets occupied). For some reason, when I gift a base with a naval unit there, it gets transferred with the gift

(It's a tactic I sometimes use, when I have the tech lead and a base is getting pounded into submission - I'll call up a Treaty or pactmate and gift the base to them - that wasy I avoid techsteal when the base gets overrun by the enemy)

AFAIK only when mind-controling a base do the ground units within that base - or in that base's radius - get transferred as well

[GeoModder]

I sometimes had it that one units stays behind and transfers together with the base, while a whole army sitting in that base is sent back to my nearest base. For safety measures I mostly abandon such a base and then transfer it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

It all depends on how easily this program can be used, do one or more of the turn players need to use it? Please elaborate.

[AdamTG02]

YEA.

Limitations:

20 or 50 year limit on trading that particular base, but if another faction conquers it they may trade it.
Military unit must be present, but may be anywhere within the base radius to allow for base trading between non-pactmates
20-year limit on any trade after each base trade, because this could prevent gradual trading of several bases -- for example, for a peace resolution -- and since one must bring units to the bases, gradual might be the only way to do a large trade.

Any thoughts on these caveats?

[Snowflake]

Looks like everybody is in favor. However I voted no. Kody's program is untested, and the base trading itself has not be experimented in a pbem yet so nobody really have the experiences to tell the potential implication of such change. I would advocate we test this idea in other places first before we implement this in the ACDG. We all know ACDG involves much more people then a regular pbem and disputes can happen easily as it is, even without many drastic changes. I do not see it as a good venue to test out ideas, even if they are very good ideas.

[Kassiopeia]

HongHu took my words right out of my mouth. Nay.