Next ACDG - faction start positions (moved from "Darsnan as Game Creator" thread)

[buster]

Sorry - I missed this thread & Googlies mail. Been swamped recently.

As for setting up the game - I would not mind doing it, however my experience in modding the txt files is very limited.

I usually don't get complaints about giving players fair starting positions and have quite some experience in making/adapting maps, so if the game is pretty much vanilla otherwise I can do it, but if you're planning on various custom alterations to aspects not normally set at the start of the game (such as disabling facilities, changing tech prereqs or characteristics of units or factions) I really cannot recommend myself.

I have not really done this before and would not like to have the game restart 8 times before I get it right.

Likewise - if beefing up the AI - I have usually resorted to the simply method of giving them more or larger bases, better territory and a tech head start rather than tinkering with the way they behave.

What would be workable would be either no modifications or I am supplied a finished alphax.txt done by someone else. Other than this I am fine on doing it.

[Googlie]

Buster:

either Darsnan or I (or both) can work with you via e-mail (or your Civgaming chatroom) re .txt alterations (D's done more imaginative stuff than I have, such as nerbegas missiles, etc - all I've done is cruiser probes)

We're both pretty comfortable with tweaking the AI's attitude to diplomacy, strategy, etc thru the Scenario Editor, which also lets you disable SP's etc etc - pretty much self-explanatory once you get into it

But obviously neither D nor I would see the map or start positions - but you're pretty much an expert at those anyway

That would work

G.

[GeoModder]

I wonder about including native grav busters

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Googlie
Buster:

either Darsnan or I (or both) can work with you via e-mail (or your Civgaming chatroom) re .txt alterations (D's done more imaginative stuff than I have, such as nerbegas missiles, etc - all I've done is cruiser probes)

We're both pretty comfortable with tweaking the AI's attitude to diplomacy, strategy, etc thru the Scenario Editor, which also lets you disable SP's etc etc - pretty much self-explanatory once you get into it

But obviously neither D nor I would see the map or start positions - but you're pretty much an expert at those anyway

That would work

G.

I agree with Googlie's assessment. The quickest way would be to do screen captures and forward synopsis of the impacts of each tweak, which buster could then choose from as he feels appropriate from each subcategory (i.e. Googlie and I wouldn't know what fine tweaks buster had done to the game, even though we fed him the variables! ). Could be very interesting how buster sets up the game, as well as possibly opening new horizens for busters CMN'ing capabilities!

Of course that would mean Googlie and I would have to share all of our CMN'ing secrets with each other first - no way would we each give up all of our well guarded secrets, thus creating an Uber-CMN, without at least getting something in return.......


D

[johndmuller]

One would hope that the nature and intent of the tweaks that D & G provide to Buster would be shared with the rest of us as specifically as possible so that everyone has the same insight into the setup. I enjoy the surprises that CMN's are able to put into the game, so I don't really want to know everything that D & G have up their sleeves, or precisely what Buster is going to do, but it might not be too fair if D & G know too many things that the rest of us do not know about what Buster is thinking about. It could also diminish their own enjoyment of the game if they had inside dope that they were trying not to take advantage of and/or to edit out of their conversations with their factionmates.

Of course, we could all make suggestions for Buster

(How about taking all the fungus and lurking Native Life out of Gaia and putting it into Morganland ?)

[Snowflake]

I think all that D&G is going to do is to help buster to acheive whatever change is needed in alpha.txt to reach what we decided. I do not think buster is going to let anybody know what surprises he's going to put into the game for us.

[buster]

Just to ensure I am current with the scene.

If I get it correctly we are looking at 4 factions:

Morgan
Sparta
Gaia
Angels

large map - normal climate - 50 to 70% ocean- normal level of natives

AI - if any - not yet worked out and amount of bolstering also not decided.
Tweaks/modifications to game - undecided - lots of very diverse opinions from what I see.
Settings & difficulty level - undecided.
Except shared victory option off (wipe the rest, buy them out or transcend - end of game, only one winner)

As we have a mix of factions and at least sparta already started honing the slogans - I guess it should be a map where all playstyles can be done (ie: not each on an Island far apart & nobody in danger of getting attacked on turn three either).

Please correct me if I missed something and/or confirm.

[GeoModder]

I guess difficulty Transcend, as usual?

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by johndmuller
One would hope that the nature and intent of the tweaks that D & G provide to Buster would be shared with the rest of us as specifically as possible so that everyone has the same insight into the setup.

Thats not going to happen. Personally I am loathe to share all of my secrets, and is the primary reason I resisted Rubin's suggestions I write a guide for CMN'ing, as people reading such a guide could then be aware of all the sneaky CMN tricks and strategies, and design strategies to counter them.
A good idea Googlie has is to create a "CMN Smoking Room", where CMN's can share ideas, strategies, etc. . However here again I envision this to be more of an assistance tool for game creation, as opposed to creating a standing list of definitive strategies used by various CMN's. I am pretty sure it will be starting up at CGN soon. FYI.

I enjoy the surprises that CMN's are able to put into the game, so I don't really want to know everything that D & G have up their sleeves, or precisely what Buster is going to do, but it might not be too fair if D & G know too many things that the rest of us do not know about what Buster is thinking about. It could also diminish their own enjoyment of the game if they had inside dope that they were trying not to take advantage of and/or to edit out of their conversations with their factionmates.

I can't speak for Googlie, but assuming buster does sign on to be the CMN, then all I plan on doing is opening up my playbook to him, with a short synopsis on each item in my playbook. What buster chooses from there is completely up to him, and I will have no knowledge of what he tweaked, nor how he has tweaked it.

Of course, we could all make suggestions for Buster

Isn't that the purpose of all the threads here deciding which Factions are going to be played, how big the Planet is, the land/ water ratio, etc.?


D

[Drogue]

Originally posted by buster
large map - normal climate - 50 to 70% ocean- normal level of natives

Slightly les than Large map, although around there, and what was voted for was the low end of 40-60% water. However that's just a guide, IIRC, and so tweak it as you see fit to make a good game

Originally posted by buster
Settings & difficulty level - undecided.

Transcend I think was already decided.

Everything else sounds great

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Darsnan
Thats not going to happen. Personally I am loathe to share all of my secrets, and is the primary reason I resisted Rubin's suggestions I write a guide for CMN'ing, as people reading such a guide could then be aware of all the sneaky CMN tricks and strategies, and design strategies to counter them.

IMHO it's not important to know the exact way the AIs could be boosted, but I do hope any and all changes to the alphax.txt will be made public and agreed upon.

[Chaunk]

Drogue, since the majority vote on may size was huge, i don't think "slightly less than large" was agreed on at all

C

[Maniac]

Actually only 13 of the 42 votes voted for Huge. So there's an absolute majority for a non-huge map.

(Doesn't taking the average seems fairest to you?)

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Maniac
IMHO it's not important to know the exact way the AIs could be boosted, but I do hope any and all changes to the alphax.txt will be made public and agreed upon.

The only section of the alpha(x).txt file that gets embedded into a game is the #UNITS Section (where Googlie's Probe Cruiser line goes). These units can then be viewed via the Datalinks in the Units Section. There won't be a text blurb for them, but you can at least see their attributes. FYI.

Drogue, since the majority vote on may size was huge, i don't think "slightly less than large" was agreed on at all

I'd have to agree with this statement. Isn't this vote supposed to be a case of Majority Rules, and not a case where the decision is skewed to reflect a statistical center of the voting pattern? If it is the latter, it would make it exceedingly difficult for the person setting up the game to decypher the exact settings for the game.


D

[Maniac]

Besides the issue what the majority wants, there's also another element to consider when deciding what map size to take. Namely the fact that the Spartans are most powerful on a tiny map, and become weaker compared to other factions the larger the map becomes. Though Angels can also play well as builders and thus it's less worse for them, the same counts for them: the larger the map is, the further other factions are away from them, and thus the less they can use their probe skills. So IMHO, even if a majority was in favour of a huge map, I think for the fairness of the game and giving all factions a decent chance, the map size should be absolutely at max Large size, and preferably smaller. "Standard" is the medium map size, so even on Large builders will still have the better end of the deal...