Gaian Headquarters

[Hydro]

Gaian punishment is much more subtle and nasty the nerve stapling:

* Having your exercise instructor changed to the Spartan GIRT (whose intelligence is indicated by his sloping forehead and dragging knuckles) instead of the Gaian Marla, for whom ‘give me 20’ has more than one meaning
* Forced to watch the Hivean tour de force: Keeping the Feeding Den Clean
* Being promoted to ambassador to the Morganites, and instructed to listen in rapt attention to their endless droning on the joys of boreholes
* Being denied the hand-prepared Chiron Pear Flambé, and being given the Spartan delicacy synthgruel instead
* Telling the nearest Believer that you’ve always admired Miriam’s true beauty, and that your truest wish is to take the Lord God as your personal savior
* Attending a University symposium on proper Mindworm dissection techniques

[Snowflake]

Lord Darsnan! Welcome!

* The Gaians dance around the trees.

[Googlie]

Googlie lowers his MorganVision 3D Binoculars somewhat embarrassedly after observing Darsnan and Hydro cavorting naked among the pines

[Kody]

All the jiggling would be somewhat offputting I guess.

[Darsnan]

OK, I haven't heard back from anyone yet regarding access to Gaian forums or what the general consensus is to date regarding the direction our Faction should take. I am going to be OOT till Sunday afternoon EST. If someone in authority here can PM me and give me a general rundown of the direction our Faction is taking, I'd appreciate it.
Also, one thing I'd like to bring up for discussion immediately is what starting units is everyone receiving for the next ACDG? Because the Gaians are in this game, and we have Centauri Ecology (which is our natural advantage), then I think all the other Factions should start without Formers, just as they would in a regular SP game. Can someone here take charge of this and ensure that this is indeed the case for the next ACDG?
Look forward to working with everyone, and see you in 1.5 days!


D

[Hydro]

Darsnan,

I just PMed you the info obstructor sent me. Hopefully you'll have better luck.

Now, with regards to formers. I STRENUOUSLY object if the other factions get formers to start. This is, after all, a Gaian advantage. It also is a HUGE boon for momentum players or development challenged factions (like Hive or Believers), who can then b-line for impact (since they really don't need anything else in the way of development besides CE). This can set non-Gaians ahead by 10+ years, and force everyone else to make impact b-lines, too.

If everyone gets CE (or formers, which they can then build, meaning they don't need CE) then the Gaians need to get some other significant tech that makes up for their major loss. I would suggest Industrial Automation, or Planetary Networks. Not that I'm biased, of course.

Hydro

[GeneralTacticus]

Might it help if the Gaians got more formers to start with?

[Hydro]

No, it would not. More formers are irrelevant: I am objecting to taking away the Gaian's initial advantage by gifting CE to the other factions. If the other factions value CE so much then they can modify their precious b-lines to get CE ASAP and divert their plans for global conquest by a decade or so.

Again, giving CE or formers (which is the same thing) to the other factions means the Gaians get hosed. I recommend that the other factions start out as in SP with no CE or formers: if they can live without formers in SP, then they can here, too. With directed research they can overcome this with minimal effort; if not they need some remedial SMAC guidance and should read Vel's instructive strat guide.

If the Gaians are going to be hosed then significant compensation is required. A single or even several former (worth 20 minerals - big deal) does not cut it.

Is it common to hose the Gaians in PBEM or Democracy games by gifting their starting tech to the other factions? Frankly, I'm surprised the other factions think they are so weak they need CE from the start, especially when DR is used.

I'm in this for role playing, btw. As such, I'm not as concerned about 'fairness'. If 'fairness' is an issue then remove the Gaian restriction on using FM. Change it to a prohibition on "Power", which is almost useless (imho). That would even out the 'fairness' issue, I would think.

Hydro

[Maniac]

Though personally I don't see it necessary for everyone to have CentEco from the start - it is after all indeed a Gaian advantage - I would prefer that every faction can pick CentEco as their first tech to research, without the mod3 rule interfering.

[Kody]

Not 100% sure, but....

The research Minute Mirage did showed that the mod3 rule comes into play after the first tech is researched or from the CMN adjusting the techs.

So allowing players to choose their first research tech without the mod3 restriction should be fine.

Need to double check that with Minute Mirage though, or conduct some of your own research.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kody
The research Minute Mirage did showed that the mod3 rule comes into play after the first tech is researched or from the CMN adjusting the techs.

IIRC CMNs give factions their techs manually though, so the prblem would then still remain I guess. Anyway, I haven't investigated it myself. I just remember reading once somewhere that HongHu was playing as the Hive in a PBEM set up by Darsnan, and that she couldn't choose CentEcol as her first tech. So I assume this is a real problem.

[Googlie]

A couple of points:

I don't think anyone from the other factions is expecting formers (only happened in the current game 'cos the gaians weren't in it, and to give the teamplayers something to discuss in the early turns)

And in my CMN games I don't give formers when the Gaians are a team (with the exception of one I just set up with Darsnan in it, and I specifically asked him if he wanted to forego that advantage - he did)

re: tech choices - I've only seen it happen with the UoP (and it happens every time) where when it's given Infotechs as its faction tech, and then scenario started for password setting, only 4 choices are given for the free tech and cent ecol isn't one of them. the workaround is to give them cent ecol as the startv tech, then infotechs comes up as one of the choices.

I've never seen it denied other factions as a first tech to research (but that's not to say it's never happened to others)

G.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Maniac

IIRC CMNs give factions their techs manually though, so the prblem would then still remain I guess. Anyway, I haven't investigated it myself. I just remember reading once somewhere that HongHu was playing as the Hive in a PBEM set up by Darsnan, and that she couldn't choose CentEcol as her first tech. So I assume this is a real problem.

Maniac is right that in one of my Pbem I wasn't able to choose CentEcol as first tech. I was Hive and we had some changes in alpha.txt I think. For example everybody was able to build sea colony pod without flexibility. I imagine if we are not going to alter the alpha.txt much, this situation should not appear, hopefully. However I would like the CMN to make sure that this indeed does not happen.

As whether everybody should get a former, I strongly believe that the answer should be negative. CentEcol is the Gaians starting tech and its benefit is formers. Giving formers to other factions almost equate to giving a faction's starting tech to other faction, only if the unit rather than the tech is given then the tech cost is lower.

That said, I do not think this would be a problem because so far I am not aware anybody suggesting that formers should be given to everybody. AFAIK this is not normal pbem practise either, especially when Gaian is one of the factions. I would appreciate if anybody think differently let us know as soon as possible, otherwise we could view this as a settled question.

[Mart]

Gaians grow. And after initial low signup it will be a very strong faction soon.

Is really Centauri Ecology so big advantage, that all other factions would have to have one former from the start?
----
Just I think that should be bonus for Gaians. I often do not choose Cent.Eco as first tech. It all depends which faction I play and the terrain around

[FlameFlash]

And obstructor was worried about having a weak team...