Excuse me but what the hell is this?

[Snowflake]

Wow such heated discussions. As I just came back from my business trip I feel I have a calmer mind so that I may be able to summarize a few observations as objective as I can.

Here're the facts I gather, let me know if I'm incorrect:

1. CC broke out a war against PEACE, Hive stated its desire of keeping neutral.
2. CC merged with Uni and formed CPU. Hive felt hesitatant and lowered its CC pact to treaty.
3. PEACE was at risk of being eradicated by the CPU. The Hive presented a motion for cease fire and returning of the PEACE bases by the CPU. Have CPU and PEACE reached a cease fire? I'm not very sure about this.
4. Sometime during this period, CPU converted PEACE's colony pod and Hive later destroyed this colony pod.
5. We are all heavily accusing each other for our past actions.

I think we all understand each other regarding what happened. What we don't agree upon is what is wrong and what is right. However, as many pointed out this may not be the key. The key is what we are going to accept and what we are not.

[Edit] Edited so that CPU does not read PUT.
Oh and this point:
6. Function GeoModder is promoted after his success in PEACE colony pod conversion mission to an unknown position.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by HongHu
Wow such heated discussions. As I just came back from my business trip I feel I have a calmer mind so that I may be able to summarize a few observations as objective as I can.

Welcome back to real business.

The only wrong point I can find in your summarise is:
- point 2, the unification isn't called PUT, but CPU

As for point 3, diplomatic talks continue on a friendly base.

point 5 seemed to have cleared the sky, if this is an english idiom as well...

Btw, you missed my promotion

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Voltaire
The Central Military Committee was concerned that the base would be used for military purposes, which could be a threat to the security of the Hiverian homeland. The action was taken as a prudent means by which to ensure our long term security. We would have allowed PEACE to establish a base there; this does not mean we would have allowed you to do it.

So instead of asking us not to build one, you just destroy it. Great. Let's murder civilians without provokation or warning, because we can't be bothered to ask first if they'd withdraw it.

As for your comments about our threats. You just declared war and attacked a civilian unit, killing thousands. We're happy to be civil and debate it, but you didn't even give us an ultimatum, you just attacked us. Even your own faction members said it was an act of terrorism.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Voltaire
If I recall correctly your aggression was deemed illegal by the Council,

Yes, declaring war and killing units, especially civilians, was declared illegal. Which is why you just did it.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Second of all the CyCon was attempting to use civilians as a shield in an attempt to establish a military base within the reach of Hiverian soil.

Which we weren't.

Originally posted by Voltaire
Should we take this as the view of all CyConians?

Should we take Enigma's old views, Jamski's views, HongHu's posts all as the view of all Hiverians?

Originally posted by Voltaire
The Hive wants peace, but we will have peace on fair and equitable terms, not on your terms.

So do we. We want a peace that doesn't involve you attacking us.

Look at the Hive CPU relationship. We asked for a co-op victory, you said no but agreed to Pact. Then you downgraded, when we didn't want to. They you attacked us, when we wanted peace. And yet you think you're the ones wanting peace? Friendship?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Voltaire
You attacked PEACE first; you have shown yourself to be aggressors.

We gave you reasons. We attacked peace because there was no council or forum to bring our grievances to, as a last resort. You declare war, on unarmed civilians, because you felt threatened, without any warning for an evactuation or communication whatsoever. You also are aggressors, without provocation.

Originally posted by Voltaire
The Human Hive has committed itself to the fight against imperialism in whatever shape and form it finds. You stole a PEACE colony pod; you moved it to the landmass we had reserved for PEACE, a landmass which the Hive views as vital to its security, from our perspective that does not look good.

Without telling us that was reserved for PEACE and while CPU and PEACE were discussing their zone?

Originally posted by Voltaire
Regardless of this issue move beyond it, it is over, if you want to move toward better relations with it get of it, accept it, and move on.

Excuse me? You think that killing our unarmed citizens doesn't have reparations? You start a council motion accusing us of atrocities while you murder innocent civilians. You break international laws that you wrote in the last council motion, and think that's ok?

We'd like to move on. We'd like to be friends. But when our allies first downgrade their relationship, then, without warning, accuse us of an action they once agreed with, without telling us their opinions had changed, then attack us, killing our civilians, without warning and provocation, and you think that all this is ok, that you're being defensive? You are the aggressor with CPU. You attacked us. You broke off the pact. Yet you claim we're the ones who won't talk? We do, and have always, wanted to discuss and co-operate with the Hive. But how can we when we are met with threats, ultimatums, and violence. You accuse of of threats, yet you have threatened us.

[Jamski]

I like to bring the attention of people here to the thread initiated by a private Hive citizen.

Please read the recent post there.

That means ignore the last long posts (sorry Drogue you must have taken ages to type them all) which are only designed to try to inflame this argument.

/me feels guilty for not really reading Drogue's points, but knows that arguing with him won't help the situation *

-Jam

[Drogue]

Don't worry... I was just rambling probably anyway

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by GeoModder


Welcome back to real business.

The only wrong point I can find in your summarise is:
- point 2, the unification isn't called PUT, but CPU

As for point 3, diplomatic talks continue on a friendly base.

point 5 seemed to have cleared the sky, if this is an english idiom as well...

Btw, you missed my promotion

Oops sorry. Post edited.

[Jamski]

Don't worry... I was just rambling probably anyway

Normally I like to read your "Drogue specials"... but I'm not sure a carefully detailed RP-rebuttal of each point would really help the cause.

-Jam

[Snowflake]

Hey we have not killed innocent civillians!!! We were informed by your newly promoted Function GeoModder that you've captured the PEACE civillians inside the colony pod and they are being safely cared for by the CPU as prisoners of war. The Hive coastle guard reported suspicious indications of unknown virus ... They can't actually be the remnant of CPU assimilation can they?

[Jamski]

HONGHU!!!!!!

Stop it!!!!!

This doesn't help the democratic process.

-Jam

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by HongHu
Hey we have not killed innocent civillians!!! We were informed by your newly promoted Function GeoModder that you've captured the PEACE civillians inside the colony pod and they are being safely cared for by the CPU as prisoners of war. The Hive coastle guard reported suspicious indications of unknown virus ... They can't actually be the remnant of CPU assimilation can they?

/me gestures towards Pravda, 3D and the newly created thread by Jamski...

[Snowflake]

Oh! ok.

[Jamski]

-Jam

[Voltaire]

Originally posted by Drogue

So instead of asking us not to build one, you just destroy it. Great. Let's murder civilians without provokation or warning, because we can't be bothered to ask first if they'd withdraw it.

As for your comments about our threats. You just declared war and attacked a civilian unit, killing thousands. We're happy to be civil and debate it, but you didn't even give us an ultimatum, you just attacked us. Even your own faction members said it was an act of terrorism.

You’ll have to bring that up with the Foreign Affairs Committee; it’s not under my jurisdiction.

The Hive government would greatly appreciate the names of any such alleged members who made that claim.