A ruling by googlie that suprised me ( will shed a little light on his resignation)

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Flubber
2. allow preaccepted deals to avoid missed trade opportunities and speed diplomatic interchange
3. Still permit backstabs and failure to pay later

So, to be crystal clear.....

If the Cycon had accepted the trade and in the diplobox said "we accept the conditions"

then next line in the diplobox said

"we have been so p'd off at this pact that we are downgrading it to treaty"

and then in the 3rd line said

"Oh, and btw we are not going to abide by the conditions we agreed to 2 lines earlier"

everything would have been OK?

G.

[Corellion]

Originally posted by Maniac
Personally I don't see the need to change the rules of this game. This situation could have been avoided by a simple precaution of PEACE: contacting the faction you want to give a tech to well in time instead of on the last minute and while you still have the turn, and not a day after you sent the turn. That way all miscommunications and stress could be easily avoided, and deals wouldn't have to be rushed, with all the resulting mess and inclarity afterwards. Besides, I'm sure Googlie would have allowed to keep the turn longer a bit longer than 48 hours if very crucial negotiations were going on.

Err... hehe

Beat me to it.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Flubber BULL

I personally PM ed the guy you told me was your ambassador a full two days before you guys got the turn.

But a day after you sent the turn. You sent your turn on 23 hours and 59 minutes after Drogue posted it in the turn tracking thread. This means you could still wait 24 hours, in that time asking us whether we agreed on a certain deal. Yet you did not use that time. Why not? In the past you did keep the turn in your camp because of important negotiations.
Again, you could have avoided this situation very easily by changing your diplomatic tactics.

[Snowflake]

Are we roleplaying here? If yes, then I'm sure the real functions and the real captains would not talk about something as fictitious as a "turn". If not, then I would suggest we try to keep us from accusation wars.

[Drogue]

I agree with HongHu. It cannot be in character, as we are not allowed to do that. OOC we don't need a mudslinging war. PEACE have put their side of the story here, where we cannot reply and give our side. I think that says it all.

[Maniac]

If not, then I would suggest we try to keep us from accusation wars.

Gladly.

[Archaic]

You can't reply IC, with knowledge that you'd only know IC, but you can reply OOC....

It's all been said by now from the looks of it, by various people, but frankly, I see the Cyborg actions as perfectly legitimate. Yes, they betrayed PEACE. That's PEACE's problem, not the CMN's. That is the risk you take when you pre-accept a trade of any sort, and if PEACE are looking for anyone to blame, they should blame themselves for both failing to complete negociations when they had plenty of time left, and failing to make a good choice of Pact Partner.

As for Googlie's actions, in my opinion, he correctly made his post as he would have if he had no prior knowledge of the Cyborg plans. If he had refrained from posting, that would have made it appear suspicious. By posting normally, and simply saying what he would have if he had no knowledge of the Cyborg intentions, he has as far as I'm concerned broken no rule, written or unwritten.

Frankly, whoever it was who made those comments which have made Googlie do this should be utterly ashamed of themselves. You are certainly a very poor loser if you can't take a little backstabbing. Not everything can go your way, exactly as you planned it. If you can't accept that, you shouldn't even be in this game, let alone in a PBEM of any sort.

[DeathByTheSword]

Frankly, whoever it was who made those comments which have made Googlie do this should be utterly ashamed of themselves. You are certainly a very poor loser if you can't take a little backstabbing. Not everything can go your way, exactly as you planned it. If you can't accept that, you shouldn't even be in this game, let alone in a PBEM of any sort.

i fully agree

[jtsisyoda]

Very well put, Archaic. (Sorry, bad pun.)

[Corellion]

... Ugh

[Hercules]

I have just got back to read all this update. I have to say I have to support Flubber on his comments and explanations.

You sent your turn on 23 hours and 59 minutes after Drogue posted it in the turn tracking thread. This means you could still wait 24 hours, in that time asking us whether we agreed on a certain deal. Yet you did not use that time. Why not? In the past you did keep the turn in your camp because of important negotiations.

Our approach allowed for sufficient negotiating time and space (4/5 days) plus our notice in the Dip Box. It was not a particularly complex offer. Nor did it need to be hammered out inside 48 hours.

[Drogue]

You well know that we have explained to Flubber on numerous occasions why we did not have 4/5 days. Yet you continue to persist in writing it in a place where we cannot explain why.

[Hercules]

Googlie resigned because of personal insults towards him from a certain PEACE member. Drogue has in the past thought of quitting the ACDG because of personal insults from a certain PEACE member. And though I haven't thought of fully leaving the ACDG, I deliberately chose to switch my focus from the ACDG to the ACPSG because I was fed up with the implicit insults and hypocrisy of certain PEACE members.

Is it just me, or do certain people in PEACE have an attitude problem?

I would ask Maniac to withdraw and or delete these comments. They have no place in this discussion and I feel are insulting to me and my colleagues. As you have read many of us in the Peace faction disagreed with the decision but many accept it as a ruling.. That does not invalidate the ruling being challenging robustly, nor it being defended robustly.

I would not advocate changing the rules mid game but I would advocate a good thorough discussion (in the abstract) in the general help forum, where it can be thrashed out.

Also as you know I want Googlie to continue as CMN

[Drogue]

Herc: He was talking about Googlie's resignation, not about this ruling. Your faction accepts it, however IIRC, one member of your faction attacked Googlie personally, and insulted/accused me. That post was not intended to state that this was PEACEs official line. He simply illudes to "certain PEACE members".

While I wouldn't be abject to deleting the last line, the rest is all true. I did think of leaving because of personal attacks from PEACE, and it seems Googlie has too.

I think it is relevant to the debate. However if Googlie rules it to cross the coundaries of non-communication, since we have not met all the factions, then it will be removed. Maniac is welcome to remove it, however I am not going to officially ask him to remove what he says, because the insults made against me were never refuted by PEACE.

Maniac knows that most members of PEACE accept the ruling. That post is about those members of PEACE that have not, and that did the things that Maniac stated.

[Flubber]

I can see that despite playing many many PBEMs I had a fundamental misunderstanding of what is acceptable regarding the comm box.

I thought I could say I 'll give you x ( preaccepting x) if you send back y . . . and taking x would be wrong and a cheat if the tech was not returned . . . . I saw the diplbox as something different from a base that may be raided or a unit that may be stolen . .. I now see that you can't preaccept as a means to speed play as you do so at your peril . ..

I can see by the weight of opinion that I was wrong . . . I do find it amazing how many games I have played and no one has ever tried this on me -- the issue has never arisen before in any of my games . . .

I did not want this stuff to come out in this fashion. I was suprised and disappointed to see googlie resign and started this thread when there was a call for someone from the faction involved to explain what happened. I don't believe our faction looks good in all this (our faction was duped and then a member acted in a manner I didn't agree with) but in this thread I have neither whined, nor roleplayed.

I legitimately believed in something and wanted to make sure I understand the rules ( I don't agree the ruling is the best way to go but thats neither here nor there and the fact that I didn't understand something that appears clearly understood by others is my problem) . Now that I understand the rules my attitude is one of " nice backstab, you had me completely fooled"

As for one side of the story-- any faction will get the cycon version whenever they meet the cycon . As it stands the cycon are coming out of this pretty good anyway as everyone is focused on googlie's resignation

If everyone isn't sick of all this all by now, I will probably still do a roleplay thread since events are interesting . .. The stuff I have posted here has intentionally been a pretty bland recitation of what happened. I could probably do a more colorful version in a pirate tone as a tall tale o' the sea or somesuch. That story could contain the Pirates view of what happened ( in case anyone cares) . .. Although not a great writer, I would hope to make it at least a moderately entertaining read. I would hope as others obtain all the commlinks that they would similarly post roleplaying type stuff.


My view is that googlie staying is not even an issue. He was is and should be the CNM IMHO. My preference would have been for all this to come out in some roleplaying at some later time . But for the googlie resignation issue, I would not have mentioned this issue until my tall tales was ready. In retrospect, I probably could have given fewer details but if that is my error I will live with it.