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The nature of this democracy game -- discussion thread

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  • The nature of this democracy game -- discussion thread

    There are a number of polls about voting powers, googlies powers and rulemaking. All of them fundamentally come back to a question as to the nature of how this game will be played. Is it:

    1. a democracy style PBEM where the game will be won and lost on Chiron through the normal in-game mechanics and diplomacy -- any voting and "rule-making" out here are just in fun and are limited as anything that impacts game fairness is unenforceable

    2. A democracy PBEM which will be mainly determined by the in game mechanics and diplomacy but which can be impacted by some fun roleplaying out here in the general forum. For example, if the Chiron equivalent of the Kyoto accord were passed, each faction would be required to reduce their ecodamage. Everything would be of general application and if it hurts one faction more than another, thats just a reality of decisions by world bodies

    3. A democracy Pbem where the will of the majority rules in ALL matters and the in-computer part of the game could be majorly and severely impacted by majority decisions in this forum. The power of the majority is absolute and they have no obligation to be fair to anyone ; If the majority decides that a faction must self-destruct a base or even a bunch of bases, they must do so, even if all the members of that faction are opposed.

    Note that I have purposely chosen an extreme example #3 as I want to get a sense of how far the right of the majority to decide things actually goes in most people's mind. The example could be less severe . . . i.e. could the majority decide that the UNI only must pay a 10 ec fine to each other faction for some infraction? I suspect that the vast majority out there are saying " silly Flubber . . . of course the majority can't impose anything that impacts actual gameplay"


    I suspect that's the case because accepting a googlie veto on majority decisions seems to be winning. But other than that indication, many posts on the subject have stressed the rights of majority rule in determining how this game procedes and have never mentioned any limits on that majority right. I'm sure that most people would say that limitations were " implicit" or " understood" but I just want to be sure people are thinking the same way.

    I didn't post a poll since I just want to see how others view the game. I mentioned three possible conceptions of how the game works but feel free to write a different (likely better ) description.


    Oh and example one is how I see the game. The underlying Smax PBEM will be a played fairly . Decisions out here can be made but nobody has to do anything that impacts on game balance. Like the UNited nations, theis general forum is powerless to force any sovereign nation to do anything.

    How do you see the game? Sorry to harp on this but I have never played a demo game before and I believe many others have never played a PBEM .
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

  • #2
    One of course. We could of course sign a Kyoto agreement, but the only way to ensure an unwilling faction follows it is by attacking them in-game and make them do it.
    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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    • #3
      I agree with #1. The forum should reflect the actual game and not the other way around.
      "We are living in the future, I'll tell you how I know, I read it in the paper, Fifteen years ago" - John Prine

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      • #4
        #1, of course.

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        • #5
          Ditto
          Be good, and if at first you don't succeed, perhaps failure will be back in fashion soon. -- teh Spamski

          Grapefruit Garden

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          • #6
            #1, #2 is unenforceable since faction could very well choose to not ratify any planetary "Kyoto Protocol".
            You can only curse me to eternal damnation for so long!

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            • #7
              Agreement over here.
              Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
              Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
              *****Citizen of the Hive****
              "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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              • #8
                #1 of course . But also think about the mid game as diplomacy gets going and when decisions taken in the general forum could be enforced by factions declaring Vendetta,(in extreme situations) out of nowhere other than from a Demo game decision/poll. There could be decisions taken to not share tech with stray factions, yet that would not be against the game process.

                What I am saying is, some decisions and sanctions are enforceable as part of the diplomacy game and the options would be much wider in scope than is contained within the usual SP Diplomacy channels.
                On the ISDG 2012 team at the heart of CiviLIZation

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                • #9
                  I choose number two, because any such "Kyoto Accord" would not be enforcable without actual in-game threats. If anybody should choose to not comply, it's up to the others to decide what to do with them.

                  The only thing that full majority should affect absolutely would be matters of the game mechanics, out-of-character stuff.
                  Comrade Corellion, Secretary of Science and Social Engineering for the Human Hive in the Alpha Centauri Police State Game (ACPSG).
                  Function Corelli Omega-9, Internal Affairs Function (Terms 110, 101, 100, 011, and 010) and Advisor on Foreign Affairs (Term 001) for the Cybernetic Consciousness in the Alpha Centauri Democracy Team Game (ACDTG).
                  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one.

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                  • #10
                    The Human Nature is a Struggle between Good and Evil.
                    That having be said: #2
                    Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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                    • #11
                      Number one sounds most fun. Do it!
                      Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The nature of this democracy game -- discussion thread

                        #1, though I do think that if we do make a rule....each faction should adhere to it lest something terrible happen to its leader
                        Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
                        Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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                        • #13
                          #2 would be more fun, of course if a team chose not to follow an agreement, the only solution would be Vendetta Once the teams all meet in game, I'm sure we can start to have some great polls and diplomacy here in the main forum...

                          -Jam
                          1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
                          That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
                          Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
                          Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.

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                          • #14
                            jamski, youre setting up the hive for more enemies than youll be able ot handle
                            "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                            'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                            • #15
                              jamski, youre setting up the hive for more enemies than youll be able ot handle
                              It's unfortunate that you interpret Jamski's words that way. We in the hive are looking forward to many glorious alliances with nations such as yourself.

                              - Rokossovky

                              (oh, and #1)
                              - Comrade Marshal Rokossovky
                              Marshal of the Revolutionary Army of the Socialist People of the Human Hive

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