OFFICIAL - United Nations Polling Standards

[Jamski]

Tass

Polls = good

More polls = better

I haven't seen so many people actully taking part in the demo game for about three weeks.

1 person - 1 vote, otherwise this demogame will end up being played by 5 people and Googlie.

-Jam

[Static Universe]

Originally posted by The_Progenitors
::Progenitors: aware that humans : engaging in democratic process............... Dictatorship: closest known human equivalent to: superior Progenitor methods............... Democracy too chaotic. Makes humans: untrustworthy................... Suggest: reconsideration of voting procedures::

It appears we are being watched by an alien presence. But are they friend or foe?

[Drogue]

Is this a joke? Surely this is just between whther we vote by head or vote by faction?

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Drogue
Is this a joke? Surely this is just between whther we vote by head or vote by faction?

Good question, Drogue. Surely this whole complicated mass is hard to understand to your logical wisdom. Sometimes human beings can really become irrational and emotional when they try to make logic out of things. One of the reasons that I keep a distance from RL politics.

[Snowflake]

I suggest Googliegod makes a determination on this one head one vote vs one faction one vote matter and shut the confusion once and forever. This does not preclude Googliegod makes an OFFICIAL poll before he makes a determination.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Jamski
Tass

1 person - 1 vote, otherwise this demogame will end up being played by 5 people and Googlie.

-Jam

With all respect, BULLCRAP. There is supposed to be a full democracy game going on within each faction. Out here, as many people as want to can roleplay, argue or whatever.

All I am proposing is that rule changes not be made by a majority of people without regard to the wishes of the 5 FACTIONS.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

My view is that this is a load of bunk Say it's a 49/51 vote....By saying "1 faction, 1 vote" you are saying that THAT is when 49 percent of those votes aren't counted anymore. They become MEANINGLESS.

To sum it up: THE MINORITIES VOTES ARE ONLY COUNTED AT A STATE LEVEL, AND NO FARTHER. Hardly democratic

But that is the way nations work. When the United States or Britain or ANYBODY takes a position at the UNited Nations or whatever. They take the position on behalf of the nation despite any internal divisions.

In the UN its one country, one vote ( And NO I don't want anybody with a veto, other than Googlie). Imagine if China and India each wielded 4 times the influence of the US in world governance issues. Would the US or Russia accept this ??

In game fairness terms, it is hardly democratic or fair to accept a decision that 51% of the people want when it could be opposed by the majority of the factions that have to live with it.


QUOTE] Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Imagine if all television programing in Calgary was listed under Moscow time. It would be bending over backwards for Moscovian-Candadians, but it would inconveinence the rest of the nation.

[/QUOTE]

Wheres the inconvenience ?? ON a rules issue you could have the position of the factions just as quickly, if not more quickly than the time needed for a general vote.


QUOTE] Originally posted by Tassadar5000
To sum it up: THE MINORITIES VOTES ARE ONLY COUNTED AT A STATE LEVEL, AND NO FARTHER. Hardly democratic




I intended to create this poll for ALL future polls. Because if we become so bogged down that

1. More than half of all DG players aren't online when less than half are
2. We have to create a seperate "United Nations Polling Standards" poll for EVERY TYPE OF SITUATION
3. One person can come up and say "Well, even though the majority said THIS....I say nay." and ties up the entire DG....

Then we are NEVER GOING TO GET DONE

[/QUOTE]

BULL -- I asked the question for the very reason that there could be issues arise where there are factional interests involved. My method wouuld be no slower than a general vote-- it would be the same only the factions would vote


QUOTE] Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Yes, I listed them because some people are being so whiny. They don't get the outcome they like, so they spew out the "Well, the HIVE or the CONCIOUSNESS can skew the results ANY WAY they'd like!!! Even though GooglieGod says theres no mention of it in the forums.......It's still a mass conspiracy." load of stinky fish. And quite frankly, it's bugged me so much I decided to list these options.

[/QUOTE]

I don't know if the whiny part was aimed at me but I was and am a big proponent of the one nation one vote concept. So far I have liked the outcome of the individual polls but to me that irrelevant. I never said anything about any conspiracy. ( THAt and the whiny bit are strawman arguments IMHO)

If this is a democracy game then people should act in the same fashion as they would in the real democracies. My example of the Canadian senate is the exact same issue and the arguments are the same. People in smaller political entities argue for powers by entitity while peoplein larger ones see the "fairness" of an individual vote

If I were roleplaying, would you expect a nation of sea-captains to submit to a world council that allowed them anything less than an equal voice at the table.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Seriously. We need to create SOME type of government here. We were able to function together as a DG previously....All thats changed is there are more groups. So why is the DG being shaken up so much over something so inconvienient? Yes, when I'm in the minority I want people to listen, but fact is....I'm still in the minority.

Plus, usually people come to me Remember political parties in the last DG? Yep

But Tassadar, this game is fundamentally different that the last one. The different groups in the last game ALL had the same interest at the end of the day, the betterment of one faction. In this game, the different groups, are fundamentally opposed to one another. We are opponents.

I don't see that the game has been shaken up or what is proposed is so inconvenient. Factional voting could be quicker and the game would ooperate more like the real world politics we are trying to emulate as part of the game.

When I am in a minority position in my faction, I lose and our faction does something else. I accept that. BUT in the world government I don't think anything should pass that the majority of nations oppose.


QUOTE] Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Plus, usually people come to me Remember political parties in the last DG? Yep [/QUOTE]

Convincing people and factions . . . thats all I have been trying to do . Doing ok with it as well.

[Flubber]

Oh and Tassadar

I noticed that the poll results thus far narrowly support one nation- one vote. Just curious as to when you plan to close the poll . . . Also as a proponent of the one person -one vote system, would you accept the delegation of power to the nation-states if that were the final result ?

[Jamski]

Are we not still operating under the constitution of the old demo game which had 1 person, one vote, and which will require a TWO THIRDS majority to change? Also all official polls should run for a set time with a minimum of three days.

-Jam

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Jamski
Are we not still operating under the constitution of the old demo game which had 1 person, one vote, and which will require a TWO THIRDS majority to change? Also all official polls should run for a set time with a minimum of three days.

-Jam

The constitution of the old demo game hardly seems applicable unless you plan to start electing all the folks like in the last game. This is NOT a single democracy game like the last one Constitutions such as that are relevant to the internal workings of each faction but hardly matter out here in the world government.



The only decisions that can happen out here are to do with the rules and I have stated my opinion many times that only factions should have a say on that issue.


Is this the constitution you were referring to ?? 99% of it seems inapplicable and you quite frankly don't need one.


UN CONSTITUTION


This is the constitution that we, the people of the United Nations Peacekeepers, have decided upon. In it, we have declared that we shall form a government of the people, a Democracy, in which
we shall choose who leads us. Our faction will be let by the people and for the people.


ARTICLE I: Commission Structure


Executive Branch

This is the administrative section of our faction. The Executive branch is made up of the Commissioner and the Alpha Talent. These two are required to abide by the suggestions of the directors, who represent the will of the people.

Commissioner:
Has the right of:
*Playing the game for the citizens
*Acting as he deems fit if there is an emergency
*Advising any other part of the government

Has the duties of:
*Following directors orders on there field of expertise
*Posting SAV`s and turnlogs on the forum
*Overall keeping the citizens aware of there situation.
*Holding turnchats (as long as possible) 2 times a week
*making turnthreads and keeping them updated
*Posting polls on how our bases should be named
*Serving his faction the best he can

The Commissioner shall physically play the game.

Alpha-Talent:
Has the right of:
*Acting as he deems fit if there is an emergency
*Taking over the Commissioners seat with its right and duties if the current Commissioner is somehow not available.
*Starting elections
*Advising any other part of the government

Has the duties of:
*Posting polls he hear the peoples voice
*Posting elections polls
*Posting cabinet threads for his term
*Posting nomination threads
*Being a substitute when a goverment official is impeached or has resigned
*Serving his faction the best he can
The alpha talent is the second of the commissioner and is responsible for elections, finding out what the people want and helping the commissioner as best as his abilities let him.


Director Branch

Directors make up the directorate. Directors are elected in the area they oversee, and they have the task of informing and advising the people on our situation. They are required to conduct polls in order to interpret the people’s will. They are then to carry out that will, by giving their orders to the Commissioner.

All Directors are allowed to advise and consult with each other. They are also granted the right to petition for changes or actions from other Directors that may be critical to the their department. Ultimately, however, it is the Director in charge of his/her section that has the final say in how things are handled.

All directors will have to post their general strategies in the 'office' thread. This will outline possible situations where the commissioner can not ask for orders from the directors but will have to act on the general orders.

Director of Science:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the Commissioner what the next researched advancement is
*Advising any other part of the government
*Requesting buildings with the Director of buildings productions

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Giving his opinion to the director of foreign affairs about any talks, which effect his area, with other factions
*Serving his faction the best he can

The director of Science shall choose the advancement to research.

Director of Peacekeeping Operations:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the commissioner to move military units
*Ordering the commissioner to design military new units, disband old military units and upgrade current military units.
*Advising any other part of the government
*Requesting buildings and military units with the Director of buildings productions.

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Giving his opinion to the director of foreign affairs about any talks, which effect his area, with other factions
*Designating a portion of his units as exploration units
*Serving his faction the best he can

May NOT:
Start wars if there hasn’t been official poll that says it is ok

The Director op Peacekeeping Operations has the control of all military units


Director of Foreign Affairs:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the commissioner on talks with foreign factions
*Advising any other part of the government

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Maintaining good foreign connections
*Giving his opinion to the director of Exploration and Intelligence on covert ops actions
*Consulting for advice any other director if his area is being discussed with foreign factions
*Serving his faction the best he can

May not:
Declare blood truce, peace, pacts if there hasn’t been a poll saying it is ok.

The Director of Foreign Affairs will do all foreign negotiations

Director of Energy and Industry:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the commissioner to rushbuild, use money in trades, change worker placements, and move crawlers
*Advising any other part of the government
*Requesting crawlers and buildings with the Director of buildings productions.

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Giving his opinion to the director of foreign affairs about any talks, which effect his area, with other factions
*Serving his faction the best he can

This Director is responsible of the treasury expenditures, worker placements, and crawlers.

Director of Terraforming and Colonisation:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the commissioner to move terraformers and colony pods
*Ordering the commissioner to design new TC units, disband old TC units and upgrade current TC units
*Advising any other part of the government
*Requesting terraformers colony pods, and buildings with the Director of buildings productions.

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Serving his faction the best he can

Director of Expansion and Terraforming commands all colony pods and terraformers

Director of Social Engineering:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the commissioner to change the social engineering’s page
*Advising any other part of the government

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Consulting for advice directors which are effected by changes made in the social engineering’s page
*Serving his faction the best he can

May NOT:
Change the social engineering settings if there hasn’t been a poll saying it is ok.

The Director of Social Engineering is responsible for the social engineering’s page

Director of Exploration and Intelligence:
Has the right of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Ordering the commissioner to move any exploration units and covert ops units
*Asking the director of Peacekeeping Operations for exploration units
*Advising any other part of the government

Has the duties of:
*Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area
*Listing to the will of the people in his area
*Consulting the director of Foreign Affairs during covert ops actions
*Giving back control of exploration units to the director of Peacekeeping Operations when the situation asks for it
*Serving his faction the best he can

The Director Exploration and Intelligence is command of exploration units and covert ops units.

Director of Base production:
Has the right of:
*Ordering the commissioner to build buildings and units
*Advising any other part of the government
*Starting polls about Special Projects

Has the duties of:
*Choosing between various requests made by the directors
*Starting polls about Special Projects
*Listing to the will of the people about the Special Projects
*Serving his faction the best he can




ARTICLE II: Government policy


Amendments:
Amendments to the Constitution can be submitted by any member of our faction. First in a form of a thread where exact lines can be discussed and after that in a poll. An amendment is passed and made official by a 2/3 or greater vote on the amendment's inclusion.

Office Terms:
All office terms shall last one month. A member can run for a different office at the end of his term, but he cannot change offices during it. If a member is elected three times into any government office, that member may not run for any government office the fourth consecutive term. After the fourth term he may run for any government office that is available. If this rule let not have a fully seated government, the rule will be deemed invalid for that term.

Impeachment and Resignations:
Every member of our faction is recognised the right to bring foreword the issue of impeachment of any government official at any time. The constitutional court will look at the demand and determine if an impeachment progress has to be started within 48 hours of the impeachment demand
The rules for the poll:
*There has to be started a one-choice-poll with the options: YEA, NEA and ABSTAIN
*5 days open
* 2/3 YEA vote to pass the proposal or under 1/3 NEA vote to pass the proposal

the rules for the first post:
*The unbiased reason why the person in question could be impeached
*The job of the person in question
*The time when the poll ends

If impeachment happens the alpha talent takes his place until a new election has been held.

Every government official may resign from office the alpha talent will do the same as with impeachment. If the alpha talent has to take over 2 or more government places we will freeze the game until new elections are held.

Playing ahead:
No person is allowed to play ahead to:
*Gain information about foreign factions

Base Names:

The alpha talent or the commissioner will pick 5 names from the name thread and will put them in a poll where a name for a new city can be chosen. This poll has to be open for at least 2 days. The name with the most votes will be chosen for the base and will be scraped from the list. The same counts for landmarks. If someone wants to name a place without a landmark a poll has started about giving it a name or not. This poll will also have minimum of 2 days.




Article III: Polls


There will be 3 types of polls:
*Elections
*Official
*Unofficial

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elections:

May only be started by the alpha talent. Must have election
in the subject line. They are purely decision-making polls.

Poll:
*Office in question
*ONLY names candidates
*Abstain option (will Refrain from banana)
*Write-in-option
*3 days open

First post:
*ONLY names candidates
*Link to discussion thread
*Expire date

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Official:

May only be started by a government official. Must have official in the subjectline, and must be used as information gathering or decision making

Poll:
*Abstain (will Refrain from banana)
*Write-in-option
*Minimum of 3 days
*Maximum of 7 days
*Clear and not biased question and answers

First post:
*Further explanation of the questions and answers
*Link to discussion thread (if any)
*Expire date
*Stated: information gathering or decision making

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Unofficial:

May be started by all members of the faction. They are purely information gathering polls

Poll:
*Minimum of 3 days

First Post:
*Expire date (if any)
*Link to discussion thread (if any)

[Maniac]

That's a very old version. Here you can find the updated one, still in use when we finally ended the first ACDG. After having looked over it again, the only relevant parts are the rule that a 2/3 majority is needed to make a constitutional rule or amendment, and the rules concerning official poll making:

On constitutional lawmaking:

Amendments:
Amendments to the Constitution can be submitted by any member of our faction. First in a form of a thread where exact lines can be discussed and after that in a poll. An amendment is passed and made official by a 2/3 or greater vote on the amendment's inclusion.

On official polls:

Official:

May only be started by a government official. Must have official in the subjectline, and must be used as information gathering or decision making

Poll:
*Abstain
*Write-in-option
*Minimum of 2 days
*Maximum of 7 days
*Clear and not biased question and answers

First post:
*Further explanation of the questions and answers
*Link to discussion thread (if any)
*Expire date
*Stated: information gathering or decision making

Can we at least agree on that?

Oh yes, Clause 2 of the Bill of Rights:
"No citizen shall ever be denied the right to vote in any poll."

[Flubber]

[

Oh yes, Clause 2 of the Bill of Rights:
"No citizen shall ever be denied the right to vote in any poll." [/QUOTE]

Excellent. I figured there was an updated version somewhere.

The cited sections highlight the problem. Constitutional changes require a 2/3 majority but you admit that the old constitution is inapplicable. There is no WORLD constitution to amend. And the clear wording, "amendments can be submitted by any member of our faction" clearly contemplated that all people under the constitution are of one faction.

POllS

Official ones can only be started by government officials of which there are NONE. All the ones in the previous constitution are applicable only to the democracy games going on INSIDE each faction


BILL of RIGHTS

Legal rights come from and flow through a nation state. Each faction governs themsmselves through their own constitution (or lack of constitution). Obviously a citizen can only ever vote on things related to the faction they are a citizen of.


There has been a fundamental change from the last game. Part of the politics is that nation-states demand rights as nation-states and at an international level are not willing to have less votes at the UN simply due to less population.

All in all, the constitution is a good guideline for how to run a faction.

Edit add--- But a world constitution is hardly needed, merely an idea of how disputes will be handled, if they arise





--------------------------------------------------------

Arrgh this pirate captain knows nothing of yer sissified constitution and such. I will 'ave to consult me brother captains to see wut they says . . . but me two pieces of eight says that the Piartes are the equal of any nation and we won't be abidin by some police state rules, growin' people in test tubes to make more Hive babies. The only proper way is by wenching wit the lovely lasses.

[Flubber]

People may be losing sight of the fact of how very little actual decisions will be made at the world level. The game will be mostly played at a factional level and only rules questions and disputes would be handled out here.

I am proposing a model similar to the united nations where one state gets one vote and the only veto goes to googlie. I don't see that as being unrealistic as it is the way that earth works. ( ON a practical level I would be totally happy to have googlie decide ALL rule issues and any disputes but on a roleplaying level I thought the fun of a demo game is to have the factions act as factions on world decisions)

I also see this debate as being totally in character on all sides. The populous nation wants more clout while the less populous harp on the sovereignty and rights of the individual states. I thought arguing over this stuff was the point of a "democracy game"

Jamski long ago proposed a Planetary council with a single ambassador from each nation. I thought that this was a great idea.

[Snowflake]

Ok, let me try one more time. How about we set up two polls, one for one head one vote, one for one faction one vote, with the same options: onve head one vote, one faction one vote.

Now if both polls favor one result, we go with that one. If they differ, then we argue some more. I realize that it is kind of redundant and bothersome, but we are not going anywhere anyway.

Plus, it's a perfect opportunity for me to learn how to create a poll.