First Communist Interfactional (Cominfac)

[Gnool]

Glorious comrades, allow me to introduce myself. I am Gnool, self apointed People's Commisar of the Collective Happiness of the Human Hive. As you probably know, we at the Hive are committed to seeing Marx's centuries old vision of a glorious proletariat paradise become a reality. While we at the Hive are dedicated to this admirable goal, we know that some of you from other factions share this glorious dream, but weren't fortunate enough to come down in the Hive's pod.

The goal of the First Communist Interfactional (Cominfac) is to reach out to fellow communists, socialists, and other assorted left-wingers out there among the fungus, and to engage in thoughtful discussion and debate on all things left.I invite all of you now to join in this glorious discussion of left-wingedness, put forward your ideas, criticise others etc. Let the glorious fun begin!

[Jamski]

Its...........

.........The Return of the Revenge of the Son of the Everlasting CCCP!

For starters I'd like to propose that one is less free in a Free Market, than in a Planned economy

-Jam

[Cedayon]

/me scrambles out to get to the bomb shelter before Archaic arrives*

[Drogue]

I think the whole of the UoP or PUT (whatever you wish to call it) is in hiding. They seem to be keeping very much to remselves at the moment

However if he feels like it, I'll take Jamski on

How does having the ability to choose what you wish to buy make you less free? What part of free market (not a corporate run society, but one where the market is actually 'free') makes it less free? How does not having competition, and having (usually) only 1 product of each type to choose, make you more free? And most importantly, what is your Planned economy like? Is everyone given jobs (as per Marxist theory) but not allowed to choose or change jobs? Is there a choice of products to choose from?

If you cannot choose your occupation, you cannot choose what you are doing for most of your waking hours, a considerable constraint on your freedom. If you cannot choose what you buy, then you have reduced choice with the products you consume, another constraint on freedom.

So tell me Jam, how are you less free in a Free Market than in a Planned economy?

[Maniac]

Archaic, GT and I had a debate way back on that. A debate about socialization and internalization of capitalist values, and about determinism. Do you want me to dig it up?

[Jamski]

@ Drogue : I'm glad you used all those wink smilies. Yes - it was a deliberate troll to start some debate As I argued (at great and boring length) in the old CCCP thread that it was a logical imposiblility to be "more free" or "less free" - one is either free, or one is not - my proposal that "one is less free in a Free Market, than in a Planned economy" is obviously rubbish.

However - on the same grounds one can argue that it is not possible for either Planned or FM to be more or less free than one another. This demonstrates the inaccuracy of the name "Free Market" - when what is meant is "Deregulated Market"

@ Maniac : Please don't - I still dream about that thread.... there was a really funny post (from you or Ced?) where Archaic argued with a YEC, represented as smilies.... if you care to search those thoses lighter gems out.... would be much appreciated by the people who missed the "fun" last time.

-Jam

[moomin]

Originally posted by Jamski
This demonstrates the inaccuracy of the name "Free Market" - when what is meant is "Deregulated Market"

Nothing could be further from the truth. "Free" in free market means no legal entry (and exot) barriers, nothing else. Free markets can be resulated, unregulated, firecly competitive or monopolies, but as long as there's no legal barrier to entry, they're theoretically free.

If you gonna take swipes at the only system in human history to bring properity to the masses, capitalism, please don't do it like an OT teenage commiebopper.

[Jamski]

*whispers to Moomin*

This is just a bit of fun, mate

-Jam

[moomin]

Fun, you say?

Well see who'll be laughing after the powers that be get anonymous pointers to this outrageous spamming!

Oh, wait. This is a DG. Sorry. Carry right on!

[Jamski]

Well, this is really just a normal OT thread hidden in the safe home of the ACDG womb.

-Jam

[Maniac]

there was a really funny post (from you or Ced?) where Archaic argued with a YEC, represented as smilies.... if you care to search those thoses lighter gems out.... would be much appreciated by the people who missed the "fun" last time.

I found it in The Everlasting CCCP ! thread:

--------
*imagines an Archaic v. YEC encounter*

YEC:
...
Archaic: ... ...
...
YEC: ... ...
...
Archaic: ... ...
...
YEC: ...
...
Archaic:
...
Both:
...
(further degeneration).

*shudders*

That must have been ugly
----------

If new ACDG members would like to read some of those... "fun" discussions, I suggest you rearrange your forum to show threads sorted by number of replies in descending order, from the beginning. As those discussions were all quite lengthy, all the debate threads will be on page one and two. And after you've read all the discussions, you'll understand why a multiple team game was better than one big common ACDG.

prosperity to the masses = capitalism

Great joke!!!


Maniac

[Rokossovky]

If you gonna take swipes at the only system in human history to bring properity to the masses, capitalism, please don't do it like an OT teenage commiebopper.

Firstly, I assume you mean prosperity. Secondly, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Let us look at the glorious US for an example; a place where the top 1% of the population controls more wealth than the bottom 95%. This is also the nation that brings you for profit heath care, lacklustre education services, and, generally, a poor quality of life for the majority of people. If one uses the UN Human Development Index one sees that nations which have adopted a balanced fiscal policy, maintained a conservative monetary policy, and followed more along the lines of socialism in determining government regulation, ownership, and taxation, tend to do the best in terms of overall development. Now, not to toot my own horn, but take Canada for example. This year we ranked 3rd in the world on that index (down from 1 where was had been sitting for a good number of years). We experience low inflation, the highest GDP growth in the G-8, a massive trade surplus, and, while the US is sinking in a 500 billion dollar deficit, we are projected to gain a multibillion dollar federal surplus this year (no thanks to evil protectionist measures being taken by the US). But yes, a deregulated market is by no means the best system. A system which has capitalist elements to it but leans to the left has been shown to yield more consistent and wide spread results.

- Rokossovky

[Jamski]

Maniac That's the one I was thinking of

They don't make threads like that anymore

-Jam

[Maniac]

a place where the top 1% of the population controls more wealth than the bottom 95%

It isn't that extreme. Still, according to this thread the top 1% own 34% of the wealth, and the lowest 95% 44.7% of the wealth. And if you look at the entire world population, which you should since there is a constant trend towards globalization, the wealth discrepancy is even greater.
In any case, I would say it is capitalism with socialist accents (socialism/social-democracy in other words) that brought prosperity to the masses. Not simply "capitalism" on itself. Everyone knowing something about the conditions during the industrial revolution should know that. I don't know how things went elsewhere, but in Europe it took decades of struggle by the masses to gain all the rights and prosperity we have now.

[Rokossovky]

Regardless, as you pointed out the gap is wide and unnacceptable.