Are you interested in discussing a demogame?

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
With no democracy game there is no need for Recreation Commons and indeed for this forum. Farewell RecCommons.

Let's see if we can do a low maintenance demogame.

* Randomly generated map
* Original 7 factions
* SMAX
* PK
* All victory conditions
* Directed research
* Otherwise, all defaults for rules

[Mead]

Re: Are you interested in discussing a demogame?

Originally posted by vyeh


Let's see if we can do a low maintenance demogame.

* Randomly generated map
* Original 7 factions
* SMAX
* PK
* All victory conditions
* Directed research
* Otherwise, all defaults for rules

OK, but make it SMAC to make it even lower maintenance and to allow a couple more folks to play.


Mead

[Darsnan]

Re: Re: Are you interested in discussing a demogame?

Originally posted by Mead
make it SMAC to make it even lower maintenance and to allow a couple more folks to play.

I agree: considering how small our community is getting, then if we're wanting to have any reasonable amount of participation we should make this SMAC.

I will also volunteer to CMN the game. And considering some of the new twists I've recently discovered, why I think I can make some relatively challenging AIs to deal with!


D

[vyeh]

Are you interested in starting a demogame?

SMAC, it is.

Since Darsnan has volunteered to create the map, let's leave all the details up to him. I'd like to see what surprises he has.

So the proposal is this:

* SP SMAC PK game with original 7 factions
* Darsnan created map and AI

I'd like to get started ASAP. Let's start by having all game decisions subject to poll (the first turn may take awhile). As we get going, we can organize, establish rules and delegate. This may be the best way to recruit players.

I'm ready to start with just Darsnan, Mead and me. Are you two game?

[Mead]

Re: Are you interested in starting a demogame?

Originally posted by vyeh
SMAC, it is.

Since Darsnan has volunteered to create the map, let's leave all the details up to him. I'd like to see what surprises he has.

So the proposal is this:

* SP SMAC PK game with original 7 factions
* Darsnan created map and AI

I'd like to get started ASAP. Let's start by having all game decisions subject to poll (the first turn may take awhile). As we get going, we can organize, establish rules and delegate. This may be the best way to recruit players.

I'm ready to start with just Darsnan, Mead and me. Are you two game?

Let's go.

As soon as Darsan makes it available, I'll play.

Mead

[Mart]

I would be glad to join. I like PK faction.

If it is not too late, I would recommend a map no larger than 40x80. It will be easier to manage bases, also will force less builder style game - will give a flavour to the game imho.
If the map will be smaller than standard, then I would recommend to declare it as custom, so the regular row length of 10 does not get shorter. Forgive me the question, Darsnan, you know this, right?

We have 3 members already. Any hints as for roleplaying, Darsnan?

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by mart7x5
If it is not too late,

It is definately not too late to join! Note that I probably won't get rolling on this till early next week (RL stuff to do this weekend).

Originally posted by mart7x5
I would recommend a map no larger than 40x80. It will be easier to manage bases, also will force less builder style game - will give a flavour to the game imho.

That'll be, um, different. How long do you anticipate a game like that lasting?

Originally posted by mart7x5
If the map will be smaller than standard, then I would recommend to declare it as custom, so the regular row length of 10 does not get shorter. Forgive me the question, Darsnan, you know this, right?

Other than making super-huge style maps (a la gwillybj) why I really haven't played with the Custom map setting. However, if I run into problems in this area why I'll just ping you on it, OK?

Originally posted by mart7x5
We have 3 members already. Any hints as for roleplaying, Darsnan?

Since this is going to be an SP, why several new options present themselves:

1) I can hack up an alpha.txt file to go with this. If you want some parameters changed, then I can just change them via the alpha.txt file, you all load the files into your Scenarios subdirectory, load up the game, and your all set.

2) Also thinking along this same theme, we could sub in some of the SMAX Factions, or custom Factions, just to give the SMAC-only people a taste of what we have been doing in SMAX.

3) As far as RP is concerned why I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Maybe once I get the map underway something will come to me.

4) Custom Units: any thoughts on utilizing some of the Custom Units that I have been incorporating recently (i.e. SP-88, APC, Probe Bug, etec.)?

D

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Darsnan
It is definately not too late to join! Note that I probably won't get rolling on this till early next week (RL stuff to do this weekend).

The key thing, Darsnan, is that you're on board! Take all the time you want. We can help by starting the roleplay. I'd like to start with all players on an equal footing RP and have specializations develop through elections.

I'd suggest that all players come in as "assistant commisioners." Pravin Lal is off spreading his ideology to the masses and has told us (rather vaguely) to "carry on."

While we're waiting for Darsnan, we can roleplay that we're on the Unity getting organized. We can introduce our characters and our philosophies.

Originally posted by Darsnan
That'll be, um, different. How long do you anticipate a game like that lasting?

I wouldn't want to see this attempt at a demogame get bogged down in the players voting on the game setup. I would prefer that issues of this type be left up to Darsnan (nothing wrong with mart7x5 making a request). I don't think much of games designed by committee.

Originally posted by Darsnan
Since this is going to be an SP, why several new options present themselves:

1) I can hack up an alpha.txt file to go with this. If you want some parameters changed, then I can just change them via the alpha.txt file, you all load the files into your Scenarios subdirectory, load up the game, and your all set.

2) Also thinking along this same theme, we could sub in some of the SMAX Factions, or custom Factions, just to give the SMAC-only people a taste of what we have been doing in SMAX.

Remember, the idea for this demogame is "low maintenance." The easier we make it for players the better. I would prefer to minimize the downloads a player has to do (this was one of the arguments some posters used against a SMAniaC game) and the modification of their SMAC directory.

Obviously, downloading a map is easiest and downloading a scenario file is not much more difficult.

I tried to restate my demogame proposal to be as simple as possible:

* SP SMAC PK game with original 7 factions
* Darsnan created map and AI

I'd like to change that proposal to:

* SP SMAC PK game
* Darsnan created map and AI factions

if there are no objections from either Mead or mart7x5

(I like surprises. It would be interesting to be surprised by the AI factions.)

Originally posted by Darsnan
3) As far as RP is concerned why I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Maybe once I get the map underway something will come to me.

I'd rather keep RPing as unconstrained as possible and let the players create their own parties, etc. I was thinking that we would start with the vanilla SMAC backstory.

Originally posted by Darsnan
4) Custom Units: any thoughts on utilizing some of the Custom Units that I have been incorporating recently (i.e. SP-88, APC, Probe Bug, etec.)?
D

Go for it! I like surprises. Put in anything you want (even do some experiments). The worse that can happen is that one of your Custom Units wipes us out in the first twenty five turns and that would be different!

I wouldn't mind the ability to build some of those Custom Units, since I can't design them in the Unit Workshop. (I assume by Custom Unit we're talking about units that are created by modifying the #UNIT section in the alpha.txt file, so you can give them more than two special abilities by setting the flag.)

Darsnan, I'd like this to be fun for you. Feel free to put in stuff you wouldn't put in a Challenge SP. This is a demogame.

[vyeh]

* vyeh walks into the conference room and spots mead and mart7x5 *

Comisioner Lal is out recruiting. He told me to tell you guys to "carry on." What does that mean?!

* vyeh sits down and looks at Mead and mart7x5 *

[Mart]

yes, having a really small map would get the game possibly last short time, unless we would reach a balance of power between 2 or 3 factions, what may be very difficult.

Whatever size you choose, Darsnan, it will be ok. Large maps have their advantages. I wouldn't like to slow down launching the game.

Re custom maps:
When maps created with flag - small, their regular row length gets shortened from 10 to 9, with flag tiny - from 10 to 8. Since sociological effects work best with row length 10, shorter (especially 8 makes problems:
3 x 10 = 30 => x 10 % => 3
3 x 8 = 24 => x 10 % = 2.4 => 2
2 x 8 = 16 => x 10 % = 1.6 => 2
then effects -3 and -2 are the same with row length 8.
The trick is, that custom maps have always row 10, thus instead of making a map 24x48 as declared tiny, one can declare a custom map 24x48.

Not that I propose this size for the game... it is just for discussion of custom maps.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by vyeh
Remember, the idea for this demogame is "low maintenance." The easier we make it for players the better. I would prefer to minimize the downloads a player has to do (this was one of the arguments some posters used against a SMAniaC game) and the modification of their SMAC directory.

The thought I had was that if this SP Demo Game was played as a Scenario, then the only modification the players would have to do to their AC subdirectories would be to add one subdirectory off of their Scenarios folder and unzip the Demo Game files into this subdirectory.

OK, and now for my really big and way out thought of the day! What if, instead of having a PK Team that was working to unite Planet under the PK Banner, that this game was set in the future where the PKs had already united Planet, and were now venturing out into space to unite all of the other planets populated by Man under the PK Banner? Depending on how many PK players there were initially I would set up X number of corresponding games which would represent X number of planets/ solar systems that the PKs were invading. I would set up each "planet" to the specs that the player "invading" the planet wanted. As time progressed and planets are "conquered" then we would add these planets to an ever-growing list of planets under the PK Banner. The more "planets" an individual conquers, the higher their status within the PK hierarchy. Also, some of the sidebars that would add to RP'ing would be that I could set the game up such that one PK player, operating in sector Gamma, encounters an exceptionally strong foe (Splinter Faction X). Several parsecs away another PK General runs into the same foe. This then would make the PK Team realize that they are not the only Faction trying to unite, and can lead to strategizing as to how to counter this foe. There could also be "guest antagonists" that you could go up against: essentially these would be human players that don't want to play as the PKs but are looking for a good game. You could negotiate with these individuals for starting set-ups, and then I (or another CMN) would set up the game from there. The difficulty would therefore be increased, and hard-won fights would be recognized by the PK hierarchy accordingly.

These are just some thoughts I've been having concerning this, and may not be the best fit for what you guys want.

Questions/ comments?


D

[Mart]

This sounds like a tournament with strong RP. Would we have still room for managing together a faction?

Good idea for creating a new game of interplanetary conquest. Smac would serve as ground battle system. I think we may do it as a separate project. We may create some simple system of stellar map with planets. Solve technological development between them and cooperate it with smac planetary games.

Great idea, Darsnan. I will write more, as I think about more details.
We may use for example spreadsheet to keep track of technologies available on particular planets.

[Mart]

And just right here, a new thought - we may have easily more than 7 factions at the same time in the game. The only requirement would be, that every planet cannot have at the same time more than 7. So e.g. we have 7, but as soon as one of them gets conquered this makes a new empty slot for yet another faction to land troops on that planet.
We may easily go beyond 14 known, for example Earth survivors faction (on Earth destroyed by nuclear war).

[Mead]

A nice simple game would be best.

I guess I could deal with the more complex variations, but, a simple easy to understand (but challenging to play) game would be best.


Mead

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Mead
A nice simple game would be best.

I guess I could deal with the more complex variations, but, a simple easy to understand (but challenging to play) game would be best.


Mead

The nice thing about the approach I am explaining above is that your request can be incorporated as well! If there is a group that wants to work as a group and only play on one planet, then they would be assigned a planet to conquer. The CMN would set up the planet per your requests (i.e. vanilla SMAC, average everything, etc.), and you could play at your own pace, give reports if you like, etc. This then would be documented as such in the annals versus the rest of the "PK Commanders".

Anyways, I think what I am doing here is reacting to the realization that there are very few people in our community anymore, and so I am trying to pull in those that are still looking for MP (i.e. to be the occasional human "antagonists") as well as improving upon SP experience (by setting up the initial AI locations with improved terrain, better units, etc.). I'm also trying to morph the game into a variant a la Gal Civ2 that takes the approach that "you need to put the boots on the planet/ planetoid/ asteroid in order to win it".


D