Are you interested in discussing a demogame?

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by vyeh
Aren't you forgetting the standard case? Since grav and desolate are independent, I think you actually have six cases:

Standard climate, standard grav

This would be the default alpha(x).txt files, meaning I wouldn't have to include them with a scenario.

Originally posted by vyeh
LOL
can we concentrate on the game and discuss physics and surface chemistry in more appropriate thread?

I agree. And since the first game will be standard everything, then we can take some time to think and discuss this before the the next game takes form. And on the thought of the game, here is what I am thinking:

On a nearby world a Believer Splinter Faction, led by a charismatic leader who could pass for the second coming of Joan of Arc, is in the process of conquering the other Splinter Factions: already the University has fallen to the Sword of the Righteous. The Spartans have also joined the Believers cause, lending their military abilities to the cause. And the Morganites, with their cread of "War is bad for Business", have guaged resistance as futile and have signed on to the Believer cause. Only the atheistic Hive, who rightly have judged that they would never be accepted into the fold, are making a stand agains the onslaught, and have requested assistance in the name of the Interplanetary United Nations. They have offered a land grant as well as several established bases if you will but lend them assistance.

Any thoughts on this? Sound like a good premise?


D

[Mart]

LOL
can we concentrate on the game and discuss physics and surface chemistry in more appropriate thread?

[vyeh]

Gravity does not increase mass; it increases weight. The fuel is required to overcome the friction between the hull and the water. I'm not convinced that the friction significantly increases from the heavier gravity (the attraction between the hull and the water is mostly due to local electrostatic forces, which is quite a bit stronger than gravitational forces on the local (molecular) scale).

[GeoModder]

Re: Is the speed of naval cruisers affected by gravity?

Originally posted by vyeh
In a heavy gravity scenario, I can see that foils would go slower. However, cruisers float on water. Speed is a function of the resistance of water. I don't see the water resistance being greater if gravity becomes greater.

Similarly, in a light gravity scenario, I don't see water resistance becoming less from lighter gravity.

Just something to think about.

They might float on the water, but their mass has increased on a heavy grav planet, so there's more fuel needed to propel them over the same distance as on a lighter gravity planet.

[vyeh]

Is the speed of naval cruisers affected by gravity?

Originally posted by Darsnan
As far as generating different planets/ planetoids/ asteroids are concerned, I envision building 12 different alpha(x).txt files, as follows:

An alpha.txt and alphax.txt version of each of the following:

- Heavy Grav: a/c, drop, and naval units -2 movement
- Light Grav: Rover, Hover, a/c, drop, and naval +2 movement
- Desolate (asteroid): farm and tree +2 turns to build, Tree and Hybrid Farms X0.3 to build.
- all 3 of the above, replaced with "Progenitor Pod" units.
D

In a heavy gravity scenario, I can see that foils would go slower. However, cruisers float on water. Speed is a function of the resistance of water. I don't see the water resistance being greater if gravity becomes greater.

Similarly, in a light gravity scenario, I don't see water resistance becoming less from lighter gravity.

Just something to think about.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Darsnan
And to expand upon my reply from earlier ... why by having jumplines connecting (and interconnecting) various solar systems would then lead to strategic decisions, as we could make a rule that a player can't make more than one jump at a time, meaning that if a player is in a solar system connected directly by a jumpline, that they can "come to the assistance" of another player (i.e. gang up on the AIs and/ or "antagonists"). If there are no players currently in adjacent solar systems (or one jump away) then no one can help them out. Thus a player would have to battle their way to the assistance of another player, or make the determination beforehand of plotting their advances along a fixed jumpline parallel to another players, which might be to a CMNs advantage!

Let's see if I understand. If I'm one jump away, having successfully conquered a planet and a player is in trouble, then I could send some military assistance in the form of additional units.

Originally posted by Darsnan
As far as generating different planets/ planetoids/ asteroids are concerned, I envision building 12 different alpha(x).txt files, as follows:

An alpha.txt and alphax.txt version of each of the following:

- Heavy Grav: a/c, drop, and naval units -2 movement
- Light Grav: Rover, Hover, a/c, drop, and naval +2 movement
- Desolate (asteroid): farm and tree +2 turns to build, Tree and Hybrid Farms X0.3 to build.
- all 3 of the above, replaced with "Progenitor Pod" units.

Aren't you forgetting the standard case? Since grav and desolate are independent, I think you actually have six cases:

Standard climate, standard grav
Standard climate, light grav
Standard climate, heavy grav
Desolate, standard grav
Desolate, light grav
Desolate, heavy grav

And of course, you would double it for both an alpha and alphax incarnations and double it again for the "progenitor pod" versions.

Originally posted by Darsnan
I'm also thinking that it would probably be good to throw in various additional units, depending on what types of additional units players would want to go up against/ make sense for the planet their playing on.
D

I like the idea. It would give variety.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by vyeh
A map was generated randomly with stars connected by jump lines.

We could start at Alpha Centauri. Jump lines could lead away, but eventually they could converge and we could run into a Progenitor colony!

And to expand upon my reply from earlier (which was rudely interupted by my boss - how dare he!) why by having jumplines connecting (and interconnecting) various solar systems would then lead to strategic decisions, as we could make a rule that a player can't make more than one jump at a time, meaning that if a player is in a solar system connected directly by a jumpline, that they can "come to the assistance" of another player (i.e. gang up on the AIs and/ or "antagonists"). If there are no players currently in adjacent solar systems (or one jump away) then no one can help them out. Thus a player would have to battle their way to the assistance of another player, or make the determination beforehand of plotting their advances along a fixed jumpline parallel to another players, which might be to a CMNs advantage!

As far as generating different planets/ planetoids/ asteroids are concerned, I envision building 12 different alpha(x).txt files, as follows:

An alpha.txt and alphax.txt version of each of the following:

- Heavy Grav: a/c, drop, and naval units -2 movement
- Light Grav: Rover, Hover, a/c, drop, and naval +2 movement
- Desolate (asteroid): farm and tree +2 turns to build, Tree and Hybrid Farms X0.3 to build.
- all 3 of the above, replaced with "Progenitor Pod" units.

Thus, a player could request to play using one of these, which would then be included in the scenario. Points could be determined/ awarded depending on how difficult the others think the scenario is.
I'm also thinking that it would probably be good to throw in various additional units, depending on what types of additional units players would want to go up against/ make sense for the planet their playing on.


D

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Darsnan
Or Empire(s)....

Or it could be a completely different alien race....
D

You've convinced me. What I like about your idea is that we can start small with one SP PK game and grow it from there.

I'm sensitive to Mead's concern about keeping it simple.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by vyeh


I'm not familiar with Gal Civ 2. Something about what you said sounded like "Traveler", a very old RPG. A map was generated randomly with stars connected by jump lines.

This would be the ideal way to do it.

Originally posted by vyeh
We could start at Alpha Centauri. Jump lines could lead away, but eventually they could converge and we could run into a Progenitor colony!

Or Empire(s)....

Or it could be a completely different alien race....


D

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Darsnan
I'm also trying to morph the game into a variant a la Gal Civ2 that takes the approach that "you need to put the boots on the planet/ planetoid/ asteroid in order to win it".
D

I'm not familiar with Gal Civ 2. Something about what you said sounded like "Traveler", a very old RPG. A map was generated randomly with stars connected by jump lines.

We could start at Alpha Centauri. Jump lines could lead away, but eventually they could converge and we could run into a Progenitor colony!

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Darsnan
OK, and now for my really big and way out thought of the day! What if, instead of having a PK Team that was working to unite Planet under the PK Banner, that this game was set in the future where the PKs had already united Planet, and were now venturing out into space to unite all of the other planets populated by Man under the PK Banner? Depending on how many PK players there were initially I would set up X number of corresponding games which would represent X number of planets/ solar systems that the PKs were invading.

One immediate advantage is that a "game" with a single PK player would go quickly. RPing would occur between "games" within some sort of "meta-game". Or one could take a break and RP (sort of like the Rec Commons that was recently shut down).

The metagame could go on indefinitely.

My initial reaction is favorable.

Originally posted by Darsnan
I would set up each "planet" to the specs that the player "invading" the planet wanted. As time progressed and planets are "conquered" then we would add these planets to an ever-growing list of planets under the PK Banner. The more "planets" an individual conquers, the higher their status within the PK hierarchy.

And, if both the starting and final turn of a "planet" are posted, other players could replay the game and see how they would do. In fact, if a player gave up, another player could try to conquer the "planet."

Originally posted by Darsnan
Also, some of the sidebars that would add to RP'ing would be that I could set the game up such that one PK player, operating in sector Gamma, encounters an exceptionally strong foe (Splinter Faction X). Several parsecs away another PK General runs into the same foe. This then would make the PK Team realize that they are not the only Faction trying to unite, and can lead to strategizing as to how to counter this foe.

I really like this! This could lead to a lot of interaction in the forum.

Originally posted by Darsnan
There could also be "guest antagonists" that you could go up against: essentially these would be human players that don't want to play as the PKs but are looking for a good game. You could negotiate with these individuals for starting set-ups, and then I (or another CMN) would set up the game from there. The difficulty would therefore be increased, and hard-won fights would be recognized by the PK hierarchy accordingly.

Good for players who find the AI pathetic.

Originally posted by Darsnan
These are just some thoughts I've been having concerning this, and may not be the best fit for what you guys want.

Questions/ comments?
D

I like it. We could start with one to three games and if other players come in more games can be created.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Mead
A nice simple game would be best.

I guess I could deal with the more complex variations, but, a simple easy to understand (but challenging to play) game would be best.


Mead

The nice thing about the approach I am explaining above is that your request can be incorporated as well! If there is a group that wants to work as a group and only play on one planet, then they would be assigned a planet to conquer. The CMN would set up the planet per your requests (i.e. vanilla SMAC, average everything, etc.), and you could play at your own pace, give reports if you like, etc. This then would be documented as such in the annals versus the rest of the "PK Commanders".

Anyways, I think what I am doing here is reacting to the realization that there are very few people in our community anymore, and so I am trying to pull in those that are still looking for MP (i.e. to be the occasional human "antagonists") as well as improving upon SP experience (by setting up the initial AI locations with improved terrain, better units, etc.). I'm also trying to morph the game into a variant a la Gal Civ2 that takes the approach that "you need to put the boots on the planet/ planetoid/ asteroid in order to win it".


D

[Mead]

A nice simple game would be best.

I guess I could deal with the more complex variations, but, a simple easy to understand (but challenging to play) game would be best.


Mead

[Mart]

And just right here, a new thought - we may have easily more than 7 factions at the same time in the game. The only requirement would be, that every planet cannot have at the same time more than 7. So e.g. we have 7, but as soon as one of them gets conquered this makes a new empty slot for yet another faction to land troops on that planet.
We may easily go beyond 14 known, for example Earth survivors faction (on Earth destroyed by nuclear war).

[Mart]

This sounds like a tournament with strong RP. Would we have still room for managing together a faction?

Good idea for creating a new game of interplanetary conquest. Smac would serve as ground battle system. I think we may do it as a separate project. We may create some simple system of stellar map with planets. Solve technological development between them and cooperate it with smac planetary games.

Great idea, Darsnan. I will write more, as I think about more details.
We may use for example spreadsheet to keep track of technologies available on particular planets.