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  • Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

    Originally posted by Darsnan
    OK, and now for my really big and way out thought of the day! What if, instead of having a PK Team that was working to unite Planet under the PK Banner, that this game was set in the future where the PKs had already united Planet, and were now venturing out into space to unite all of the other planets populated by Man under the PK Banner? Depending on how many PK players there were initially I would set up X number of corresponding games which would represent X number of planets/ solar systems that the PKs were invading. I would set up each "planet" to the specs that the player "invading" the planet wanted. As time progressed and planets are "conquered" then we would add these planets to an ever-growing list of planets under the PK Banner. The more "planets" an individual conquers, the higher their status within the PK hierarchy. Also, some of the sidebars that would add to RP'ing would be that I could set the game up such that one PK player, operating in sector Gamma, encounters an exceptionally strong foe (Splinter Faction X). Several parsecs away another PK General runs into the same foe. This then would make the PK Team realize that they are not the only Faction trying to unite, and can lead to strategizing as to how to counter this foe. There could also be "guest antagonists" that you could go up against: essentially these would be human players that don't want to play as the PKs but are looking for a good game. You could negotiate with these individuals for starting set-ups, and then I (or another CMN) would set up the game from there. The difficulty would therefore be increased, and hard-won fights would be recognized by the PK hierarchy accordingly.

    These are just some thoughts I've been having concerning this, and may not be the best fit for what you guys want.

    Questions/ comments?


    D
    Now that New Jerusalem is on the verge of falling, I'd like to reopen Darsnan's idea of a metagame.

    (1) To revive the Democracy game, make a game with fewer military units to start. While I appreciated the fast start with 28 advanced units, a game with fewer units would be easier. We can advertise the game on the general apolyton SMAC forum and the civfanatics SMAC forum (where there is a bunch trying to statt a new SMAC only forum).

    (2) The pre-terraforming was great. It essentially shrunk the world and the mag rails provided interesting tactical issues.

    (3) In addition to the game in #1, I'd like to request a game. I've gotten attached to my original 28 units. I'd like to have a game in which they would start on a new planet with their final morale (and if Darsnan makes it tough, possibly an upgrade of abilities, weapons, armor, reactor, movement rate). While I'd report on my progress, I'd post less details (not sure if anyone really cares about the movement paths, attack odds, battle results),

    Darsnan, I'm trying to post a turn a week for Game One. At this point, I think it will be two or three turns to wrap up Morgan and SotR, the Spartans may take two or three additional turns, so if you're inclined to grant my wish in #3, maybe you could start thinking about adapting one of your games (I haven't played any of your games).
    Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

  • #2
    Re: Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

    Originally posted by vyeh
    Now that New Jerusalem is on the verge of falling, I'd like to reopen Darsnan's idea of a metagame.

    (1) To revive the Democracy game, make a game with fewer military units to start. While I appreciated the fast start with 28 advanced units, a game with fewer units would be easier. We can advertise the game on the general apolyton SMAC forum and the civfanatics SMAC forum (where there is a bunch trying to statt a new SMAC only forum).
    From my perspective this should be answered by those playing the game, so I'd say once you all decide just tell me what you want and I'll build it.

    Originally posted by vyeh
    (2) The pre-terraforming was great. It essentially shrunk the world and the mag rails provided interesting tactical issues.
    The Via Appia was a neat idea I've been playing around with for a while, as it "assists" the AI if implemented correctly.

    Originally posted by vyeh
    (3) In addition to the game in #1, I'd like to request a game. I've gotten attached to my original 28 units. I'd like to have a game in which they would start on a new planet with their final morale (and if Darsnan makes it tough, possibly an upgrade of abilities, weapons, armor, reactor, movement rate). While I'd report on my progress, I'd post less details (not sure if anyone really cares about the movement paths, attack odds, battle results),
    I'm working on a game similar to this currently called "Friendship: Uncommon", in which the PKs launch a planetary assault against the Progs, only to come up against a more sinister foe. The game takes place in the distant future. It would be similar to this game in that you would be attacking the planet using the DRACa MK3's (Drop Re-entry Assault Carrier: armored). If you want you could playtest a varient of this using your units, just to see what you think. Otherwise I can relatively easily re-create your units in a different game/ planet/ etc. and you can go from there.

    Originally posted by vyeh
    Darsnan, I'm trying to post a turn a week for Game One. At this point, I think it will be two or three turns to wrap up Morgan and SotR, the Spartans may take two or three additional turns, so if you're inclined to grant my wish in #3, maybe you could start thinking about adapting one of your games (I haven't played any of your games).
    Well, you see the games that are posted here in the AC General/Help forum, and I've just given you a pointer to another forum where most of my (and Googlie's) games are posted, so this should give you a good idea as to all the various things that can be done with the game. At this point in my career a lot of what I'm doing is either recycling ideas and/ or playing mix-n-match to come up with varients of original ideas. If you've got some new/ different ideas as far as the game is concerned, why let me know and I'll see if their feasible.


    D

    Comment


    • #3
      Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

      Originally posted by Darsnan
      I'm working on a game similar to this currently called "Friendship: Uncommon", in which the PKs launch a planetary assault against the Progs, only to come up against a more sinister foe. The game takes place in the distant future. It would be similar to this game in that you would be attacking the planet using the DRACa MK3's (Drop Re-entry Assault Carrier: armored). If you want you could playtest a varient of this using your units, just to see what you think. Otherwise I can relatively easily re-create your units in a different game/ planet/ etc. and you can go from there.
      I'd like that.

      Originally posted by Darsnan
      If you've got some new/ different ideas as far as the game is concerned, why let me know and I'll see if their feasible.
      I'd like to explore your original

      Originally posted by Darsnan
      really big and way out thought of the day!
      One way, as I suggested, would be to let units keep their morale upgrades (so this would be similar to an RPG campaign). Another would be to have some kind of strategic map with different planets (with varying levels of information and difficulty).

      I started this thread to open this discussion.
      Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

        Originally posted by vyeh
        I'd like that.
        Um, which? The "playtest a varient of this using your units, just to see what you think" or "re-create your units in a different game/ planet/ etc. and you can go from there"? Personally speaking the more I think about this the less I think my suggestion would be a good fit here: the game I'm envisioning here is built around a story, which doesn't always work as well.

        Originally posted by vyeh
        One way, as I suggested, would be to let units keep their morale upgrades (so this would be similar to an RPG campaign).
        An option for a game here might be something along the lines of David Weber's and John Ringo's "March to the Stars" where a group of Imperial Marines (in this case your morale-enhanced Peace Keeper units) crashland on a planet and have to battle their way across the hostile planet to a "Spaceport" in order to escape. Sort of a Sci-Fi version of the Iliad, and the game would center more on a "mercenary diplomacy" than on city building and tech beelining.

        Originally posted by vyeh
        Another would be to have some kind of strategic map with different planets (with varying levels of information and difficulty).
        If GalCiv2 had a map editor I could do this and take screen shots, but it doesn't. If someone has a game that allows editing of star maps, then I'd say go for it and lets use that.

        D

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Re: Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

          Originally posted by Darsnan
          Um, which? The "playtest a varient of this using your units, just to see what you think" or "re-create your units in a different game/ planet/ etc. and you can go from there"? Personally speaking the more I think about this the less I think my suggestion would be a good fit here: the game I'm envisioning here is built around a story, which doesn't always work as well.
          I had meant the former. I'd be willing to playtest, even without the units.

          Originally posted by Darsnan
          An option for a game here might be something along the lines of David Weber's and John Ringo's "March to the Stars" where a group of Imperial Marines (in this case your morale-enhanced Peace Keeper units) crashland on a planet and have to battle their way across the hostile planet to a "Spaceport" in order to escape. Sort of a Sci-Fi version of the Iliad, and the game would center more on a "mercenary diplomacy" than on city building and tech beelining.
          That would be interesting.

          Originally posted by Darsnan
          If GalCiv2 had a map editor I could do this and take screen shots, but it doesn't. If someone has a game that allows editing of star maps, then I'd say go for it and lets use that.
          Perhaps, it could be done in a text-based system. At PK HQ on Chiron, there could be an assignment board, eg.

          Sanctuary, routine
          Alpha, easy
          Omega, difficult

          Players could choose their missions.
          Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

            Originally posted by Darsnan
            An option for a game here might be something along the lines of David Weber's and John Ringo's "March to the Stars" where a group of Imperial Marines (in this case your morale-enhanced Peace Keeper units) crashland on a planet and have to battle their way across the hostile planet to a "Spaceport" in order to escape. Sort of a Sci-Fi version of the Iliad, and the game would center more on a "mercenary diplomacy" than on city building and tech beelining.
            Originally posted by vyeh
            that would be interesting
            OK then, heres an idea for a premise: your group of PKs, having completed their last mission and having then been brought up to strength with new recruits, have been evacuated from the planet and are enroute to their next assignment. However in Solar System X their space transport is ambushed/ suffers a malfunction/ encounter a space anomoly/ TBD. Your group of PK units barely manage to escape the doomed transport and land onto a planet in solar system X. However your ordeal is only beginning: your units, although landing relatively safely (i.e. some units suffer some damage), are scattered haphazzardly across a wide region (think the American Airbourne units on D-Day). Worse, you have no communications equipment capable of reaching outside of the solar system your currently in. Even worse, this is hostile territory in that this solar system is controlled by the Hive, your anti-thesis.
            Finally, worst of all, you receive a faint reply from PK HQ to your ships mayday stating that they cannot help you, that if you are discovered on this planet by Hive Central this would become "politically embarrassing" to the Peace Keeper Interstellar government at this time (especially because the PKs have recently taken such an aggressive stance on the planet Sanctuary!) , and so you are ordered not to engage in any hostile operations against the dominant Hive government on this planet at this time.
            However after this communique you receive some hope: the space transport that had been shuttling you to your next assignment has crashlanded on this planet, and based on the weak signal it is transmitting to you, your able to determine that it is possible to repair the ship and make it space-worthy again. The ship is transmitting its location: you just need to get to it. Problem is its on the other side of this planet...
            And to add one final twist into the situation: as your forces land onto this planet they encounter an underground Spartan resistance movement (think Maquis, or Tito's partisans from WW2). Your troops, born and raised on the carrion-call of demoncracy, cannot do anything else but respond to their requests for assistance. You can do nothing else now but support "Le Resistance". To do this you will need to tread a thin line of complete support for these Freedom Fighters, while ensuring that your Peace Keeper Regulars are not detected and verified by the Hive Government on this planet. Oh yeah, and all the while having your units "migrating towards" the damaged space shuttle so that you can escape undetected off of this planet!

            So, proposed premise settings for the game are as follows:
            - SMAC/SMAX: TBD by Demo Game players
            - Planet settings: TBD by Demo Game players
            - PK Units can capture enemy cities, but can only hold captured cities for TBD turns (to avoid Hive "detection")
            - Goal of game is for all surviving original PK Units to reach the "Space Shuttle Wreckage" which will ensure their "discrete" evacuation from this planet.
            - I'm thinking of making this a flat map (i.e. no wrap), and placing the "spread" of PK units on one side of the map, and placing the space transport wreckage on the other side of the map, meaning you would have to traverse the length of a Huge map. Note: this is only my proposal here: up to you as far as how you want to proceed, and/ or think is best.

            D

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Re: Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

              Originally posted by Darsnan
              OK then, heres an idea for a premise: your group of PKs, having completed their last mission and having then been brought up to strength with new recruits, have been evacuated from the planet and are enroute to their next assignment. However in Solar System X their space transport is ambushed/ suffers a malfunction/ encounter a space anomoly/ TBD. Your group of PK units barely manage to escape the doomed transport and land onto a planet in solar system X. However your ordeal is only beginning: your units, although landing relatively safely (i.e. some units suffer some damage), are scattered haphazzardly across a wide region (think the American Airbourne units on D-Day). Worse, you have no communications equipment capable of reaching outside of the solar system your currently in. Even worse, this is hostile territory in that this solar system is controlled by the Hive, your anti-thesis.
              Finally, worst of all, you receive a faint reply from PK HQ to your ships mayday stating that they cannot help you, that if you are discovered on this planet by Hive Central this would become "politically embarrassing" to the Peace Keeper Interstellar government at this time (especially because the PKs have recently taken such an aggressive stance on the planet Sanctuary!) , and so you are ordered not to engage in any hostile operations against the dominant Hive government on this planet at this time.
              However after this communique you receive some hope: the space transport that had been shuttling you to your next assignment has crashlanded on this planet, and based on the weak signal it is transmitting to you, your able to determine that it is possible to repair the ship and make it space-worthy again. The ship is transmitting its location: you just need to get to it. Problem is its on the other side of this planet...
              And to add one final twist into the situation: as your forces land onto this planet they encounter an underground Spartan resistance movement (think Maquis, or Tito's partisans from WW2). Your troops, born and raised on the carrion-call of demoncracy, cannot do anything else but respond to their requests for assistance. You can do nothing else now but support "Le Resistance". To do this you will need to tread a thin line of complete support for these Freedom Fighters, while ensuring that your Peace Keeper Regulars are not detected and verified by the Hive Government on this planet. Oh yeah, and all the while having your units "migrating towards" the damaged space shuttle so that you can escape undetected off of this planet!
              Sounds great.

              Originally posted by Darsnan
              So, proposed premise settings for the game are as follows:
              - SMAC/SMAX: TBD by Demo Game players
              SMAX

              Originally posted by Darsnan
              - Planet settings: TBD by Demo Game players
              Your choice; it would be interesting to have the survey option off and all we have is the coordinates of the space shuttle ...

              Originally posted by Darsnan
              - PK Units can capture enemy cities, but can only hold captured cities for TBD turns (to avoid Hive "detection")
              Can those cities be turned over to the Spartans? Exactly, what happens if all captured enemy cities are turned over? Do we have to keep a colony pod alive to prevent losing? If we have built units that are supported by those cities and we turn the cities over, what happens to the supported units?

              Originally posted by Darsnan
              - Goal of game is for all surviving original PK Units to reach the "Space Shuttle Wreckage" which will ensure their "discrete" evacuation from this planet.
              OK.

              Originally posted by Darsnan
              - I'm thinking of making this a flat map (i.e. no wrap), and placing the "spread" of PK units on one side of the map, and placing the space transport wreckage on the other side of the map, meaning you would have to traverse the length of a Huge map. Note: this is only my proposal here: up to you as far as how you want to proceed, and/ or think is best.
              Sounds good.
              Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Re: Re: Discussion about Darsnan's metagame

                Originally posted by vyeh
                - SMAX .
                - survey option off and all we have is the coordinates of the space shuttle.
                - captured cities will be turned over to the Spartans after TBD turns.
                - have to keep a colony pod alive to prevent losing.
                So we can make these part of the game settings.

                Originally posted by vyeh
                If we have built units that are supported by those cities and we turn the cities over, what happens to the supported units?
                I believe they become independent if you have no cities to your name currently, otherwise they revert to being supported by a different city. Note I've never built a game like this before, so I'm only assuming here currently.

                D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Darsnan



                  I assume that the units which will go on to the next game are the original 28 plus a colony pod.

                  What year are they leaving Sanctuary?
                  Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vyeh


                    Congratulations!

                    Originally posted by vyeh
                    Darsnan

                    I assume that the units which will go on to the next game are the original 28 plus a colony pod.
                    Completely up to you if you want those same 28 or not. Regardless, if this is going to be a "continuation" game, then can you give me the morale status of each unit you want included so I can set them accordingly?

                    Originally posted by vyeh
                    What year are they leaving Sanctuary?
                    Good question. I think you'd want to give yourself at least 150 years playing time for this game, so that would mean starting NLT MY2250. Or I could doctor an alphax.txt file to include with the game that would have different starting and ending years, so we could then make it any MY that you want.


                    D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Darsnan
                      Completely up to you if you want those same 28 or not. Regardless, if this is going to be a "continuation" game, then can you give me the morale status of each unit you want included so I can set them accordingly?
                      UN Counterbattery Unit: 6 hardened, 1 commando
                      UN Intelligence Unit: 1 veteran, 6 elite
                      UN Observer: 7 elite
                      UN Troop Transport: 2 veteran, 1 commando, 4 elite
                      colony pod: 1 hardened

                      Originally posted by Darsnan
                      I think you'd want to give yourself at least 150 years playing time for this game, so that would mean starting NLT MY2250. Or I could doctor an alphax.txt file to include with the game that would have different starting and ending years, so we could then make it any MY that you want.
                      Let's make it MY2217.
                      Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK, so the map is progressing well. I've also had some thoughts on the premise for the game, as follows: the world Calon 1.0 was originally a Spartan colony world, and the Spartans had designated it their major training center. After a little terraforming the world had several unique ecological zones, which then allowed the Spartans to then train their mercenary units for deployment into most climactic zones that they would encounter on any habitable planet.
                        The Hive leadership, after coming out on the short end in several engagements against Spartan mercenaries trained on Calon 1.0 , approached the Spartans about sending some of their own troops to Calon 1.0 in order to receive the advanced training and tactics that the Hive couldn't teach their own soldiery. The Hive monetary compensation offers as well as the non-interference guarrantees against Spartan interests the Hive offered seemed to be a clear-shut case that this was a good faith offer, and an economic windfall for the Spartan High Command.
                        However as the Hive troops began to land on Calon 1.0 it very quickly became clear that they were invading, as these were actually elite Hive troops, and they were completely armed for war, and quickly overan a majority of the Spartan training battalions: this also was in fact the opening gambit for a Hive invasion into Spartan-held space. The Hive invaded over a large front into Spartan-held solar systems, with many solar systems being engulfed in the initial stages of the conflict. The Spartans were finally able to hold a line of defense, and a treaty was established that delimited the new spheres of influence in the Galactic Arms controlled by humans. Calon 1.0 fell within the Hive influence, however because there were still Spartan forces holding out at the time of the Hive/Spartan Armistice the territories still remaining to the Spartan survivors were therefore allotted to the Spartan sphere of influence, much the same way the islands off of North America were awarded to the French after the conclusion of the French and Indian wars of the 1760's.

                        Thoughts on this idea?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Darsnan
                          However as the Hive troops began to land on Calon 1.0 it very quickly became clear that they were invading, as these were actually elite Hive troops, and they were completely armed for war, and quickly overan a majority of the Spartan training battalions: this also was in fact the opening gambit for a Hive invasion into Spartan-held space. The Hive invaded over a large front into Spartan-held solar systems, with many solar systems being engulfed in the initial stages of the conflict. The Spartans were finally able to hold a line of defense, and a treaty was established that delimited the new spheres of influence in the Galactic Arms controlled by humans. Calon 1.0 fell within the Hive influence, however because there were still Spartan forces holding out at the time of the Hive/Spartan Armistice the territories still remaining to the Spartan survivors were therefore allotted to the Spartan sphere of influence, much the same way the islands off of North America were awarded to the French after the conclusion of the French and Indian wars of the 1760's.

                          Thoughts on this idea?
                          The Hive/Spartan treaty specified that each disputed world would join a sphere of influence upon achievement of certain conditions ...

                          While the Hive is confident that its elite troops have the upper hand, the Hive forgot about the training cadres ...

                          Unbeknowst to the Hive, Calon 1.0 was also used by the Spartans to train their probe teams ...
                          Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by vyeh
                            While the Hive is confident that its elite troops have the upper hand, the Hive forgot about the training cadres ...

                            Unbeknowst to the Hive, Calon 1.0 was also used by the Spartans to train their probe teams ...
                            And when you say this how exactly do you think this should be implemented via the game mechanics? I could, for instance, edit the Spartan Faction.txt file to give each Spartan base a free Covert Ops center, or I can design in some "special" probes (armored probes, probe foils, etc.).
                            Note that, because the Spartans will be sea-based, that I was already planning on designating them as aquatic (+1 minerals per sea square), and also giving them the free "amphibious" special ability.


                            D

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Darsnan
                              And when you say this how exactly do you think this should be implemented via the game mechanics? I could, for instance, edit the Spartan Faction.txt file to give each Spartan base a free Covert Ops center, or I can design in some "special" probes (armored probes, probe foils, etc.).
                              Note that, because the Spartans will be sea-based, that I was already planning on designating them as aquatic (+1 minerals per sea square), and also giving them the free "amphibious" special ability.
                              D
                              For the training cadres, how about independent elite and commando units, both conventional and probe, initially located in bunkers far from any bases? Give the probe teams plasma armor. How about giving the Spartans enough initial energy units so they can subvert some Hive units?

                              While we want the Hive to initially have their elite units occupying all the land bases, the Spartan training cadres will produce some flux (small Hive bases falling to the Spartans and then being retaken by the elite Hive forces or hordes of newly generated lower morale forces), which will make for a more dynamic game.

                              I'm inclined to say no to the free Covert Ops center to Spartan bases built after the beginning of the game. It might be interesting if the Spartans had a sea base with an initial Covert Ops center (this was their Probe Team training center), a sea base with an initial Command Center (land forces training center), and a sea base with a Naval Yard (naval academy).

                              No to special units (otherwise the Hive could build them too). Just give them high morale units built in the Unit Workshop.
                              Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network

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