Firaxis has a link to Apolyton on their Civ game page.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Ain't makin' fun of nobody, man. Trying to walk a line between talking about a fundamental issue we wrestle with -without spending more time in my inbox- and making more trouble for myself. I don't think the way they treat you is a real good idea, either.

3,000 eyes a day could lead to sales that matter, to the extent 2K cares that much about Civ, which isn't where the real money is. Here we are, starry-eyed suckers eager to do all the work for them, and you know either one of us would be all "thank you sir; may I have another?" to get thrown a tiny bone twice a year and told what talk to allow and what not. -With malice towards none, I'll enjoy my freedom as a fan until that day that's unlikely to come.

Businesses live and die on what the situation is today, and what they can sell right now and what's most worth their time, no doubt - but businesses also live and die on being prepared for the future. I, frankly, wouldn't want the job as fan coordinator, and I say that as someone who's a full-time nerd-herder as a hobby. -But part of the market isn't being exploited well, when the slightest of effort could be growing it with gullible nerds like me doing all the work for free...

[Aeson]

That's why I say Firaxis has always been good to the Civ community. They have taken the time to work with the smaller sites even. It's just a lot of things aren't their call. 2K has final say on how the game is marketed, what info is released where/when, etc.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

And at that, we aren't where the real sales are and never were - more, the hardcore fanbase we deal in has an intrinsic value as opinion leaders who influence the casuals where the numbers have always been, and for all sorts of feedback as Dennis and the rest recognized, and good for them, good for everyone.

2K, you'll note, I don't say much about, not being stupid. It is what it is, but I was pretty put off Saturday when I saw a couple of their pages on Facebook straight-up endorsing a certain place that needs help least by a factor of more than ten. I'm really not worth a lot of trouble at the present and I know it, but I don't have to like having my nose rubbed in it.

I was discussing this stuff with another owner in our circle at length yesterday - and while I've got it the roughest, I'm perfectly aware that you and he aren't exactly buried in bones, either, and nothing to do about it. [shrugs] Pardon me for fuming a little. I find the topic provocative, to engage in a little understatement.

[Aeson]

I'm not bothered by it myself, it's just business. I got Apolyton featured by 2K/Firaxis on a couple things for BE, but those types of promotions don't really do much. The reasons why Poly isn't THE site for Civ anymore aren't easily changed.

[C0ckney]

well a link that brings in new visitors, even if only a few, can't do any harm.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

-And just gotta get the house in order with a little life ongoing to make something of that, which is up to the members.

I'm not bothered by it myself, it's just business. I got Apolyton featured by 2K/Firaxis on a couple things for BE, but those types of promotions don't really do much. The reasons why Poly isn't THE site for Civ anymore aren't easily changed.

You'll probably be tickled to learn that I said to Solver last week "I can tell you how to run your site, but I can't make you do it." -I get that you have to prioritize your finite time, and while I quibble with whether or not it would be easy, it would undoubtedly be a long game and a labor-intensive one. So yeah; not easily changed, for all the positives there are here to work with.

-But, y'know, I'm not man enough to not say again there's an awful lot to work with here...

[Aeson]

If Civ 6 ends up being a hit with the membership here, it definitely will help.

[Ming]

2K is sticking with the big players for a few key reasons... time and resources. While it would make sense for them to work all the angles and delve down into the smaller community sites, they simply don't have the manpower/money/time for it. While Firaxis has good relations with the fan communities (and gotten a lot back in return) 2K is better off spending their time where it will do them the most good.

However, I will admit, when CivRev launched, they were very generous to the fan sites. They asked for RFP's, and I submitted one that earned Poly some solid cash. It kept the site going for a long time. They could have just blown us off

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Not to argue the point, exactly -you guys aren't wrong about 2K prioritizing- but look, [metaphor]I decided that most of what's good for Poly -and WPC and CFC- is good for AC2 -everybody grows when the memberbase of the community grows- and you'll have noticed that I'm in full-sticking-my-nose-in-and-meddling mode. I daresay I've done some good with the making suggestions here and there this time. The content/activity/membership building/rebuilding stuff is crack to me, I've lived it for years - but I made a conscious decision to make a long-term investment of effort and time to help grow the greater community for the bit I'll end up skimming at my place (where I'm definitely still spending more time working, but still). Everybody wins.[/metaphor]

It could be that way for a marketing operation - a very minor long term investment in free media sucker-supporters venues will tend to grow them and make them more valuable and sell more games. This is the first time I've even said "exclusive", mind you.

-At any rate, now I'm just talking blue-sky stuff. I concluded a very long time ago that we're all dead -that includes CFC and I've tried to tell them so- if we depend on Daddy saving us. We're grownups now and can save ourselves.

[Solver]

Aeson is quite right in that the links to Apolyton and WPC are largely due to the personal relationships between Firaxians and members of these two sites. Aeson was indispensable during Civ4 playtesting, and indeed the test group largely consisted of prominent Apolytoners. WPC separated from essentially the same group of people. By now, it's a relationship thing, not a business thing. Just as 2K's decision not to bother with the smaller sites (right or wrong) is pure business.

[Ming]

-At any rate, now I'm just talking blue-sky stuff. I concluded a very long time ago that we're all dead -that includes CFC and I've tried to tell them so- if we depend on Daddy saving us. We're grownups now and can save ourselves.

I still see a viable place for fan community gaming sites.
The corporate sites will simply not allow the honest discussions that are sometimes needed.
And forums are still one of the best ways to have meaningful discussions and to work on mods with community support.
And for the long running games, nothing beats the community.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Nothing. -And forums are the best; I believe reddit has indexes and threads where you don't have to have been there to read and comment - and that's about it for other forms of social media where what's said isn't effectively gone forever by the end of the week...

I never went to Facebook or Twitter looking for modding how-to information as a lurker; I came here.

[Ming]

Yeah... facebook and twitter for mods... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

On the other hand, YouTube has possibilities. Now, if I need to fix something, I can usually find a video on YouTube showing me exactly how to fix it.
Can you imagine a YouTube showing you how to do a mod.

[Solver]

Youtube can actually work wonderfully for modding. If you search Youtube for "Unity 3D development" or "Unreal Engine map tutorial", you get lots of excellent tutorials about Unity. Not quite modding, but no less complicated.

Granted, those things are somewhat more visual than Civ mods, but videos could be great at explaining the various components of Civ mods, or at showing off the map/scenario editor.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I've done more than my share of SMACX art modding tutorials - but subjecting myself to YouTube commenters finding someone speaking in their local dialect/accent hootful? No thanks.