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  • Its been a very very long time for me

    Just wondering, I haven't played any Civ since the first few weeks of Civ5. I just thought the game was terrible, unbalanced with heinous diplomacy. Can anyone tell me if this game has improved markedly since I last played? Or am I gearing up for an evening of disappointment?
    As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit
    atrocities.
    - Voltaire

  • #2
    So far they've made improvements around the edges but Civ5 remains a disappointment to most of us. That said the new expansion pack Gods & Kings is promising a whole raft of new features which should make the game much more interesting an engaging by addressing many of the biggest complaints most people had about the game. The introduction of religion and espionage should make the game less boring by giving players more to do and more to worry about though, sadly, the crappy one unit per tile rule is still there and still remains a fundamental flaw in game design which is more or less the reason for every other flaw in the game.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      I actually didn't mind the whole 1 unit per tile thing. I'm glad religion and espionage are back. My main problem with the game was that A) the AI had no idea how to use their units at all. Playing at the difficulty level I was accustom to, I was able to mow through other civs so easily it was laughable. The diplomacy was also horrible, it was so 2 dimensional, if you were really weak, then you could trade and have friends if you were even remotely strong then you'd have nothing without regard to what your relationship was before hand. It was like they took everything that was right about civ 4 and said, nahhhhh.
      As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit
      atrocities.
      - Voltaire

      Comment


      • #4
        The low production and long build times are due to 1UPT to prevent the carpet of doom where you have more units than spaces to put them, the slow build time and low production are why the game is so boring, so it all comes back to the error of 1UPt in the end. Everything which sucks in the game sucks because of compromises made to try to get 1UPT to work. It's a fundamental failure and I truly wish they'd go back to the traditional Civilization stacking methods. If they want to deal with the stack of doom issue then add a stacking penalty for stacks larger than X and institute the combined arms rules found in CTP2 so that having the correct combinations of units is more important then just stacking 50 units of what ever.

        The lead designer of Civ5 should be keelhauled for his crimes against the civ franchise. That said, hexs are great but that's about the only real improvement in Civ5 over Civ4 other than longer ranged units.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by greenday_234 View Post
          I actually didn't mind the whole 1 unit per tile thing. I'm glad religion and espionage are back. My main problem with the game was that A) the AI had no idea how to use their units at all.
          This is a huge problem. The AI will send a large group against you but they generally just mill about walking around your cities while you pick off their key units. Then, when they're army is destroyed, you can move forward capturing one city after another because they're all left empty. The AI is the worst short coming in the game and that's what makes 1UPT so stupid because the AI isn't up to the job and will just shuffle units endlessly to no gain.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            The lead designer of Civ5 should be keelhauled for his crimes against the civ franchise
            At least he's got a design tips blog now. Alt title: What not to do.

            http://jonshaferondesign.com/

            Jon Shafer has no shame.

            Comment


            • #7
              Honestly, the entire design of the UI in Civ5 is an embarrassment so Shafer shouldn't be giving any advice about design. Just about anything you want to do will take about 3 clicks in Civ5 where as it would take 1-2 in Civ4. That's just bad design as it's creating unnecissary clicks and worse the interface isn't remotely intuitive. It's like he just wanted to jump into writing the code of the game without even stopping to think what the finished product should look like. The best games (like the best electronics) start with a good design and the code monkeys job is just to make the behind the scenes stuff work.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

              Comment


              • #8
                Civ5 is very disappointing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I like Civ V notwithstanding the fact you can still build frigates before the advent of gunpowder.

                  Re Dinner: "The AI is the worst short coming in the game and that's what makes 1UPT so stupid because the AI isn't up to the job and will just shuffle units endlessly to no gain."

                  ~ What level are you playing on? The upper two levels should have given you a challange. Or try the Japanese Invasion of Korea on higher levels as Koreans, Mongols, or Japanese.

                  My vote on Civ V, and I have played avidly since the floppy disk version of I, is a resounding

                  The Journey itself is the thing ~ Oddyseus
                  The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wiglaf View Post
                    At least he's got a design tips blog now. Alt title: What not to do.


                    Jon Shafer has no shame.
                    Little Joni has indeed no shame at all... but you know what is even more shameful? Attitudes like the ones held by the neonazis at Civfanatics, where you cannot say a single word against Shafer without being harrassed to death by some moderators like The_Jerk... I'm glad this forum here remains an open ground of free speech. I hope it stays that way.

                    What everyone in complete disagreement with Shafer's "work" should do, I think, is express that disagreement everywhere, anytime... even withholding anything created by him in the future... (poor Brad Wardell, he has no idea what type of fake jewelry he acquired in the black market).

                    My two (hundred million) cents.
                    Candor dat viribus alas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Strength of point is worth more than whining

                      Originally posted by Dinner View Post
                      the crappy one unit per tile rule is still there and still remains a fundamental flaw in game design which is more or less the reason for every other flaw in the game.
                      A fundamental flaw you say?
                      Prove it is a flaw.
                      Simply because you don't like it does not make it a flaw.

                      That a hex is superior to a square relative to game board design has been demonstrated at least as far back by Avalon Hill games. Superior in movement relative to terrain and and number of units.

                      If a person prefers squares that is all well and good, I mean lets throw circles in there so that friends of circles don't feel left out.

                      Simply saying: "I don't like it" but adding words like flawed to add some false authority to strengthen it is what?

                      Prove your point or just say you don't like it and move on.

                      I like the 1,000 unit stackability in one square in Civ IV just fine, except it targets your stronger vets first in a major assult and keeps doing so when the attack is large enuf to go through your stacked units several times.

                      So guess what? I don't call that a flaw (even tho it always seemed to be a bit unporportional) I kept my best vets out of a stack which might get attacked by another huge stack, cuz I like to keep them.

                      It is how Civ IV is: stacked units and squares. It is good. I like hexes better and believe one unit per hex/square allows deeper levels of strategy than a who can globb together the most stuff in a stack one.

                      Play Risk instead of Civ V if the challenge on 1 unit per hex is too great.

                      Is seemingly simpler being deeper in stratigy a falicy? Then you must really be a flamer of chess.
                      The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=Aristos;6167757]Little Joni... I'm glad this forum here remains an open ground of free speech. I hope it stays that way.

                        So here is my free speech:

                        Your condescention type phrase is a lame attempt to elavate your status. Have you guys nothing of more substance to propound?
                        The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Crustacian View Post
                          So here is my free speech:

                          Your condescention type phrase is a lame attempt to elavate your status. Have you guys nothing of more substance to propound?
                          Well, it is obvious that you couldn't choose a better call sign... there is wise saying in Spanish that says "The thief judges by his condition". But I celebrate your use of Free Speech, something you wouldn't be able to use in other forums. Now, do you have something with substance to propose, apart from showing a clear fanboyism? If the game is perfect for you, why are you here? Go play your gem and light on your candles to "San Joni", please...
                          Candor dat viribus alas.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            you ventured the comment

                            So I am happy to see my point still stands.

                            You actualy begrudge me merely because I prefer Civ V over Civ IV... Nothing more. I play both well, so my oppinion is worthwhile.

                            Your putting words in my mouth: "if the game is perfect for me" when all I said was I prefer it and why, betrays your lack of substance beyond this undisputable mindboggling fact: -----> you don't prefer Civ V.

                            I respect that you don't prefer Civ V.

                            That is all I respect about your sucker punchin the guy and his ability.

                            I am appropriatly here, you can't deny it. Learn something from it, if you can because....you ventured the comment
                            The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Crustacian View Post
                              So I am happy to see my point still stands.

                              You actualy begrudge me merely because I prefer Civ V over Civ IV... Nothing more. I play both well, so my oppinion is worthwhile.

                              Your putting words in my mouth: "if the game is perfect for me" when all I said was I prefer it and why, betrays your lack of substance beyond this undisputable mindboggling fact: -----> you don't prefer Civ V.

                              I respect that you don't prefer Civ V.

                              That is all I respect about your sucker punchin the guy and his ability.

                              I am appropriatly here, you can't deny it. Learn something from it, if you can because....you ventured the comment
                              I am sorry but there is nothing to learn from your comments but arrogance, hidden under some weak veil of superiority complex. I don't need to argue why I find the product of your idol broken, and how that speaks volumes of his competency; it has been done plenty of times in the past, and by others. The product is mediocre, and it is hard to dissociate product from designer, more so in this case where the designer filled his mouth pre-launch with the grandiosity of his product.

                              I am sorry if that bothers you, but that does not make you superior nor in a better position. In fact, defending an unknown person blindly seems more irrational than superior. I judge by facts, not by whims, and the facts, given the end product, do not help the reputation of the guy you are trying to defend. It is as simple as that.

                              Oh, and no, you are not "appropriatly" here.
                              Candor dat viribus alas.

                              Comment

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