2 steps forward, 1 step backwards

[mkorin]

I really like the bug fixes, but why does Firaxis think they need to screw up game play with each patch. Diplomacy is now worthless. Before the patch, you could trade 1 resource for 1 resource or 3 for 1 if they didn't have extra, you could sell resources for a decent sum. The AI didn't carry wars on past the time of any logical sense nor had I had all of them gang up on me before the patch. Since the patch, you can sometimes trade 1 extra resource for 2 if they really like you. The best I've been able to sell one for is 7 gold but mostly 4 gold. In both games I've played since the patch, every AI just 'decided' to go to war seperately with me despite not having any access to me and having to go through other teritories which they were asking me for pacts of secrecy against. Despite the fact that I beat those next to me senseless, they wouldn't allow peace for about 60 turns. This is stupid. Either make a diplomacy that is usefull and logical or take it out.

Mike

[notyoueither]

There's a patch after the patch. Trading values are back where they started.

The AI readily agrees to peace when you've beat their army.

[mkorin]

What number is the new patch and how do I get it. I assume my steam is up to date and my trading values are still whacked. Now that could be because I was at war for 60+ turns with all AI players. I am currently at 1.0.62

[Ming]

I think the new patch is 1.0.621

It downloaded for me yesterday or the day before.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Gad. I don't know when to finally let it patch my game. This 2 steps forward 1 step back is "normal programming" but very confusing!

[Dinner]

What number is the new patch and how do I get it. I assume my steam is up to date and my trading values are still whacked. Now that could be because I was at war for 60+ turns with all AI players. I am currently at 1.0.62

You have to turn steam off then relaunch it and then it will download the latest patch.

[mkorin]

Diplomacy is back to what it was, if you're waiting to patch.

[mkorin]

I may have spoken too soon. The AI now buys/sells resources resonably, but the war settings are still goofy. For example, I had 5 AIs left and went to war with one. Five turns later all the remaining AIs went to war with me, including one that I was on very good terms wtih. Since I had a save, I restarted and didn't go to war, however, they still did it for no reason. So I restarted again, went to war with the first AI, and bribed two of them to go to war with me. Still, five turns later the entire planet declared war on me. The bribed AIs declared peace after about 12 turns. Despite the fact that I completely wiped out one AI, captured another's capital and put a beating on the third, with no contact from the other two, I am still fighting a war after 40 turns. No one even wants to discuss peace. This sort of thing really annoys me.

Mike

[Jaybe]

Well, we were warned that the AI 'wants to win,' and may align against the leader. Were you the leader in the game, Mike?

[mkorin]

Jaybe, I am about two times ahead of my nearest competiter, which makes some sense that 1 or 2 might declare war, or maybe everyone, my point is that they would never team up with the player and that after I kick some a** that they should at least sue for peace or that the civs that can't even get too me because their 'allies' won't give them open borders either wouldn't be sucked into the war or would realize that it was pointless and make peace, or even that the AI I bribed to fight another AI (which is on his border and he was kicking it's butt) would fight as aggressively as all five do against me. Granted I'm at king so a little AI 'cheating' (for lack of a better word) would be acceptable, this takes it too far.

Mike

[Jaybe]

So you have a one-game sample. Don't assume it's a general rule (yet). OTOH, we know there are going to be limitations to AI diplo logic, and sometimes 'bleep' WILL happen.

I've been playing prince games now. Have 2 warlord and 3 prince games in my HOF, along with 3-4 aborted-early games (I play large/epic). My last game I failed to expand enough and got crushed in a time victory; I discovered way too late I didn't have the research to get a space vic.

[Surprise!]

I disagree with the premise of the thread. I think it is good AI for them to dog pile you at that point. Apparently from what I understand you were an emergent super power having conquered or destroyed all threats around you, what chance do you have at losing the game then unless the AI throws everything they have at you at once? And challenging games are always more fun for me.

I found in CIV4 that after I took down the ancient and mid pack leader, there was nothing stopping me from manipulating and vassaling the remaining tech low civs into a strong armed conquest vic. But I rarely did this because short of DOW on all of them at once myself there was no challenge left in the game. And IMO if I have to use poor tactics to make a game difficult I have already lost interest in it.

Plus it has some historical backing, surrender or war is the only real options for nations left in a world with one belligerent superpower, and with vassaling out, that leaves one option.

[Brutus66]

I've been playing prince games now. Have 2 warlord and 3 prince games in my HOF, along with 3-4 aborted-early games (I play large/epic).

for honesty. I find it tedious to read posts complaining, "I play on Deity and it's just too damned easy for me."

[Ming]

It depends on the settings and maps you are playing. I've had no problem with certain types of victories on good maps at Deity. The Diplo victory is a piece of cake if you use the CS strategy. On island maps, conquest can be easy by simply aiming for Caps... you usually have surprise and easy access. A two city strategy using city states can make for a tough but makeable culture victory if you are isolated. There are certain maps and victory conditions which are far more difficult. If you are playing on a single land mass, or even continents, you will get attacked by turn 40 or so if a neighbor is near. The AI gets too much of a starting advantage, and they can overwhelm you before you can even build the units you need. It really just depends.

[mkorin]

Jaybe was right, one sample wasn't enough. They don't always dog pile. I still think they should never dogpile because they never dog pile each other.

I also agree that the AI is better than Civ 4.