Food and maritime city states.

[Sir Og]

I think it would be a good idea, in the spirit of the other changes made in civ5, to make food production global and shared (like happiness). This a actually makes more sense than shared happiness. Then maritime CSs will give a fixed amount of food just like cultural CSs give a fixed amount of culture.

Right now I think that maritime CSs are overpowered. They give you a big bonus which scales with the number of cites that you have.

In the shared food, system population growth is not dependent on excess food. (although excess food might be a growth modifier) All cities would grow at the same base rate which will be modified by buildings, tech, resources, etc. This way a big city with lots of buildings and culture might grow faster than a small farming city with no buildings and culture. All those things should not be that hard to balance (at least not harder than the current system)

There should also be some simple rules for distribution of food when there are shortages so that it's all balanced and the correct population is starved. And of course the AI should get an idea how to use that system.

I am probably missing some downsides here. Discuss...

[Iola of Shinola]

While this problem is simply more evident with food, it is actually the same basic
problem that exists with science, gold, and culture as well. CS are simply too
powerful when used correctly, and the AI does not know how to use CS at all.

I am running games now with CS turned off or set at a number below 3, simply because
they give the player a huge advantage in a game that is already way too easy to
win.

That aside, your proposal has some merits and in a "globalized" tech state, makes sense.
In many low tech settings it would be "unrealistic" -- not that that makes any real diff--
not like Civ 5 is realistic anyhow. But in early game you could found some high food city
on the other side of the globe and suddenly your capital built in the middle of the desert
starts to flourish???? Am I understanding your proposal correctly?

IMHO, the easiest solution to all the problems associated with excess CS "donations" is
to install a cap. IE the city donates 1/3 of its science production up to a max of say 6.
The only trick would be to scale the caps with the modifiers so that the modifiers don't
become "obsolete" with CS growth.

[Sir Og]

All cities with connection to the capital will have access to the shared food pool and will contribute food to that pool.

So there will be no situation where a distant high food city magically transfers it's food to the other cities. You would need harbor if you are on an island and ocean sailing tech if on another continent to use the shared food.

[jnh140]

I like a shared food concept.

We don't promote realism in Civ games really, but I mean, no city supports itself-- its the countryside that supports the cities.

[Iola of Shinola]

That would work. Small details like broken trade links would need to be resolved.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

to make it more realistic, it would actually be better if growth would be dependent on happiness! excess empire-food would flow to the cities that have more happy than unhappy. this reflects the existence of las vegas, and the amount of megalopolises on planet earth

think about it: Randstad, Milan, London, Boswash, San Angeles, Paris - none of these would exist without food flowing in across and beyond.

implementing this would lead to a few supercities and a large number of countryside towns. imagine the strategy and depth that would add, not to mention the military dimension! teehee!

[Jaybe]

to make it more realistic, it would actually be better if growth would be dependent on happiness! excess empire-food would flow to the cities that have more happy than unhappy. this reflects the existence of las vegas, and the amount of megalopolises on planet earth

Ah, you're having a civ4 flashback!

Like I do every so often.

----
And don't believe that propaganda re Las Vegas, that's just what they want you to believe. Come! Visit! Have a Good Time! Go Home Having Lost All Your Money At The Casinos!
Like taking out a payday loan, become a contender for the Darwin award.

... don't mind me, it's where I live and I've become more cynical in my old age (and this political season).

[Fidel]

And don't believe that propaganda re Las Vegas, that's just what they want you to believe. Come! Visit! Have a Good Time! Go Home Having Lost All Your Money At The Casinos!

Yeah, but it is a great base to explore the Southwest.
And yes, magical maritime food enabled it to flourish in the desert. Civ4 would not allow Vegas.

[Ijuin]

Regarding the imbalance between the usefulness of Maritime City States vs Cultured City States, the Cultured ones should probably be strengthened (e.g. give 1 culture per each city you have in addition to the amount they currently give).

[Fidel]

I would be quite happy with maritime CS giving a bonus to my trade routes (instead of food), or giving food bonus just to the capital, or top 3 cities, or something like that.

[Sir Og]

Alternative way to balance maritime CS would be to make it give a fixed science bonus per turn. The same way that cultural gives culture.

At first I thought about them giving a gold bonus, but that doesn't make sense. Paying a maritime SC so that you can get the money back through a bonus that they give just doesn't sound right. Production bonus would be as hard to balance as the food bonus which left the science bonus.

[Fidel]

hm
patronage later gives you science bonus from ALL of the CS, so if they were to give science, this treat of patronage would have to be killed off.
i would stick with food, but would nerf it.
btw, why 'maritime'? i mean, some of them are even landlocked...

[rah]

Forcing you to take a policy when you earn it would have a good influence on this. It would delay progressing the patronage tree considerably.

[Fidel]

yeah, that would be an interesting fix. cultural development is gradual and not sudden. saving 5 policies and bombing them in an instant is somewhat silly.

[rah]

I predict this change will occur