The NAVY toppic! And Units that can change into a ship, like a miracle!!?

[Beatie]

I try to look in in this forum, so far I've read nothing about it. And I like to find out what your guys think!

First the Units that floats.

I think is ridiculous for words that all units can sail! Now I am playing in my seccond game, my first game was a abort after 1900+ something. I did not need a navy at all on such a great continent. It did not go well, I try to learn what I did wrong and make it better on the seccond game where I am now. I do need a navy here. So far I am just at the end of medieval era, and I created 5 trireme ship wich did a good job and actual helped me to defeat the songhai. I did use the embark option of the units, but the tireme ship cannot defent them!??? First I think it's stupid that your units an sail away without a ship.

Therefore that seccond subject,

Can naval units defend land units on water at all?? Or did I just did not have the tech for it yet? So far they cannot share the same hex, the land en naval units.
Having tons of transport ship ready for action was always fun for me with civ4, now that is not possible.. a huge disappointment for me. Oke, meaby I was wrong and it's possible to defend them by keep on the same hex always. even then the land units go as fast as there on land. that is not very fast. I bet there are fast naval ships that go very fast. What is the point have a fast navy if you going to fight a oversea war? Your land units does not go as fast. You want them to load in a ship!!! Like in real life doesn't it!?

Its like I sad earlier, Sometimes you play Civ4, sometimes you play Civ5. I think that is going to be the case. I believe I like Civ5 in many ways, but this navy stuff is in civ5. And I am a navy lover!

[jnh140]

Hm, actually i've never had to defend my embarked units, and have only lost one, but that was due to sillyness.

It DOES make sence that a single measly trireme could not defend an entire army as they crosses the sea, but 5 of them should prevent all but the cruelest insurgent attacks. I suppose all I can say is that embarked units are trading mobility for susceptibility.

[Beatie]

Hm, actually i've never had to defend my embarked units, and have only lost one, but that was due to sillyness.

It DOES make sence that a single measly trireme could not defend an entire army as they crosses the sea, but 5 of them should prevent all but the cruelest insurgent attacks. I suppose all I can say is that embarked units are trading mobility for susceptibility.

I understand that, I thought that you could have ONE naval unit and ONE land unit on water tiles. But seems not to be the case so far.

I understand you can escort with 5 naval ships your land units, but it would take forever to sail them oversea, and you have to manual escort every single ship because the difference of speed between them.

[MxM]

I think is ridiculous for words that all units can sail!

They do not sail, boats do! Any given unit spends one year or more (depending on the age) to embark. The process itself includes sending messenger to the capital to contact official to allocate a boat for their use. When the available boat is issued, it goes to the place where the unit wants to embark, and the embarking process occurs. Due to bureaucracy it takes quite a long time, though it becomes more efficient at late ages.

Due to time compression in Civilization V (several years may pass in one minute), you do not notice all that process and see only the end result.

[NoodleNaught]

MxM your really confusing me. And why do you like the navy so much it's not like you'll ever get a intense naval war against computers, as they still never build any ships.

[pdxsean]

I love the new naval unit ranged attack feature. I'm disappointed they can't bombard improvements any more, but I do like that they can shoot at passing troops.

I've yet to be involved in any sort of large-scale battle on the ocean with embarked troops. The one time I did I got the impression each naval unit can only kill one embarked unit per turn. So if you have a couple of escorts you should be able to protect most of them. If the attacking naval unit gets to kill several in one turn (like a land unit does with workers) then that's pretty rough.

At this point the AI has no real comprehension of how to field a proper navy (or efficiently use any unit for that matter) so it can't be all that bad.

[stbabylon]

It makes a lot of sense for the earlier ages that they can embark. Those days they would just cut down a bunch of trees and make a boat

[NoodleNaught]

Why not only play the Black nation, then all your embarked units can fight back. Also on the note of naval warfare why doesn't the trieme have a close comabt attack?

[Proteus_MST]

I love the new naval unit ranged attack feature. I'm disappointed they can't bombard improvements any more, but I do like that they can shoot at passing troops.

I've yet to be involved in any sort of large-scale battle on the ocean with embarked troops. The one time I did I got the impression each naval unit can only kill one embarked unit per turn. So if you have a couple of escorts you should be able to protect most of them. If the attacking naval unit gets to kill several in one turn (like a land unit does with workers) then that's pretty rough.

At this point the AI has no real comprehension of how to field a proper navy (or efficiently use any unit for that matter) so it can't be all that bad.

I can confirm this.
When you kill an embarked unit, your attack for this turn is used up.
(Unfortunately...were it differently Harun al Rashid had lost way more of his units, he tried to send across the sea into my territory)

[Cyberian]

Naval units are way too weak to be of any importance.

You are stuck with triremes for too long a time. And on higher difficulties the AI gets swordsmen pretty fast. Against those they just can't do any decent amount of damage. Caravels are only useful for scouting as the strength increase is not that big.

Frigates are OK but only if you beeline for them to get them when the enemies units are still old tech. And doing that on higher difficulty is silly again as you could almost beeline for Artillery by that time.
In late game battleships are still too weak against tanks and better.
So navy is fun but useless except for getting over the ocean unharmed. So if enemies have navy sink them before with Ranged/Siege and then just use 1-2 scouting ships to protect your embarked units.

[Beatie]

It makes a lot of sense for the earlier ages that they can embark. Those days they would just cut down a bunch of trees and make a boat

I agree but what about a Tank? or mech infantry?

[Proteus_MST]

I agree but what about a Tank? or mech infantry?

At the time when there are tanks/mech infantry, there is already lots of civilian shipping,
so you probably just have to confiscate a couple of civilian ships along with their crews, to do your transport duty for you (a good example would be the evacuation of Dunkirk in WW2...without the numerous civilian ships that were pressed into service (or volunteered) the british expeditionary corps would have been lost

[OzzyKP]

Exactly Proteus. The embarking feature I think is brilliant and is not only realistic, but it cuts out the frustrating task of building transports and sending them to where your units are.

The question of whether your navy should be able to stack & defend your embarking units... I'm not sure about that. I can see pros and cons to the way it is currently. But it certainly is counter-intuitive that they can't.

[Guynemer]

The problem really comes to light in MP. With simultaneous turns, a player can quickly move their caravels around your frigates (or destroyers!) to take out your embarked units without giving you a chance to defend your forces.

Either embarked units from an advanced age should not be autokilled by obsolete naval units, or escorted embarked units should be autodefended by any and all escorts within movement range.

[MxM]

MxM your really confusing me. And why do you like the navy so much it's not like you'll ever get a intense naval war against computers, as they still never build any ships.

Don't take my post too seriously, it was just jokeish explanation on why would all units be able to sail in this game. It is not unrealistic at all, if you think about it.