Pact of cooperation / pact of secrecy

[Brutus66]

This is ridiculous. Why is this basic game concept not in the civilopedia? I would sure like to know exactly what these pacts do before agreeing to them.

[Wiglaf]

I signed a Pact of Secrecy and now I can skip the intro movie with just one click

[Dauphin]

If you don't uphold your word, all civs in the world will distrust you. Say you won't expand towards X, that you won't DoW civ X etc, and you do... No one will ever trust such a man.

In one game I said I wouldn't build any cities near Darius. He then built two cities about 5 tiles from my eastern border, and my eastern border continued to expand naturally from culture. I built no new cities. A message came up telling me that I had broken my promise.

Bizarre.

[PrinceBimz]

This is ridiculous. Why is this basic game concept not in the civilopedia? I would sure like to know exactly what these pacts do before agreeing to them.

I agree, I would like to know too and I am surprised its not in the civilopedia

[rah]

In one game I said I wouldn't build any cities near Darius. He then built two cities about 5 tiles from my eastern border, and my eastern border continued to expand naturally from culture. I built no new cities. A message came up telling me that I had broken my promise.

Bizarre.

If you got the message from him warning you about tile expansion, then that may have been the promise you broke. They usually come near each other. And yes, this needs to be looked at.
It's like they build a city right up against your capital's culture border than ask about all the troops at their border the next turn. DOH
But then my response to that is usually "yes, let's get it on"

[notyoueither]

Prince, the other party was the river warlord guy, whatever his name was. Makes sense with his aggression level. But I agree with the above guy, the agreement should depend on present borders. Him building a city next to my town (after I had already told him not to) and then getting upset when I bought tiles next to the new town and getting a rep hit for it is a bit too much. I don't care that he got upset, but I don't think that should equal a rep hit with all players. Same with the city I founded 5 tiles away from his nearest town (which was also new and tiny, much further from his capital). I don't care if he is insane and gets upset about it. I just don't think I should get rep hits with other players for breaking an agreement when its based on his insane ideas and I have no idea what he considers his.

BTW, what was with the insults? It didn't seem smart since even at the time I had a larger/more advanced military and 2-3 times the number of cities. Perhaps it had to do with breaking the agreements? Even then, wasn't a smart idea since I could have crushed him at any time.

One thing of note, awhile later after I finished off another civ I was preparing to invade him, he asked me why I was building up on the border, and remembering this thread, didn't want to ruin my rep and admitted I was about to declare war. So he declared first and attacked my knights/longswordsmen with his warriors/archers. Wasn't very pretty on his end. I did lose a pikeman due to the ambush which annoyed me (only unit I ended up losing). Definitely a nice addition there. Anyone know how long that agreement lasts? If I really don't have plans to attack and tell him that I'm just passing through, then 50 turns later I change my mind, will I still get hit with the penalty?

I've learned to be very careful what I agree to. I'll use the 'get stuffed' option in reply quite freely with close neighbours.

[Thoth]

The secrets of Civ5 diplo can be summarized in this post:

Originally posted by uberfish

Bismarck: Let's sign a pact of secrecy against Napoleon
Elizabeth: Sounds good, but what would that involve?
Bismarck: If I told you, it wouldn't be a secret
Elizabeth: How does anyone keep these pacts then?
Bismarck: It's a secret to everybody
Elizabeth: Forget it then
Bismarck: Ok, how about a research pact?
Elizabeth: How does that one work?
Bismarck: We both pay 250 gold to fund a joint research project
Elizabeth: Researching what?
Bismarck: It's a secret research project, of course
Elizabeth: Look, we could both really use steam power, why not tell the scientists to research that?
Bismarck: That's not how science works. All your scientists will work secretly in half the lab and all of mine in the other half on whatever they choose, and not tell each other anything.
Elizabeth: What do we need each other for then? I could just pay my scientists 250 gold while you paid yours 250 gold separately and tell them to go research something.
Bismarck: I've tried. The scientific union won't consider it unless there's another country involved.
Elizabeth: Why not?
Bismarck: That's secret even to me.
Elizabeth: This conversation is so ridiculous I'm going to declare war on you just for it.
Bismarck: Wait. Sign the pact first, we can have the war next year. The scientists are clever enough to know when there's going to be a war and will finish their research faster.
Elizabeth: But how do they know when there's going to be a war?
Bismarck: It's secret.
Elizabeth: I hate you.
Bismarck: I'd tell you how I really felt about you, but that would be giving away secrets.

Link: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showp...postcount=1098

[OneFootInTheGrave]

[Wyrda Edocsil]

The pacts are basically indicators of how the AI feels about you and other civs. If neither a pact of cooperation or a pact of secrecy is signed, it means nothing- you're completely in the dark, but, if the AI offers you one, you have some glimpse into what the leader thinks of you and/or other civs. It's Firaxis' replacement for the numbers that Civ IV gave you.

[Brutus66]

If that's really the case, it's pretty lame.

[Robert]

I like the idea but it seems to be screwed up. according to 2K the patch will address diplomacy as lot, so that's good.

[Iola of Shinola]

From the things that make you go "Doh!" department:

Diety, small continents map, 6 players 3 CS turn 46 player is the Americans--
France has OB and has built up a significant number of units all around my civ.
I am in full red alert mode, because I know the caca is about to hit the fan.
Turn 47 the OB expires, and France gives me the "You are too close" DoW. Turn
50, I finish mopping up the remains of the French Invasion Force and begin the
counter attack. Turn 58, Paris falls and the Frenchies are reduced to 2 very small
cities, however... both cities are situated near large iron deposits and one has
both Spice and Whales nearby (and I am kinda short on Iron and have neither luxury)
so ... Turn 60 when they ask for peace, I refuse and close them out on turn 63.

So far so good... Turn 70 I try to do a little diplomacy only to discover that I
am now refered to as either "Bloodthirsty one" or "dishonest individual" by every
other civ I talk to, and no one will give me the time of day. So what gives? They
basically used open borders to surround my civ with units and then launched a "sneak"
attack the turn it expired, and I am dishonest and bloodthirsty because I didn't give
them the peasce they asked for after they were beaten back to the stone age?

I had hoped to try for something other than a domination victory in this game, but I
guess the other civs want to play rough....

[Dinner]

Do we still have no idea when this mythical and much needed first patch will come out?

[ColdPhoenix]

Do we still have no idea when this mythical and much needed first patch will come out?

ETA this week:
http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/193476-Civ5-patch-ESTIMATED-to-arrive-next-week!