Civ V ... for the kids

[ahenobarb]

Interested to see how Civ V turns out.

One request to John Schafer and whomever else is on the Civ V development team:

Please, please, please, for the love of all that is still Holy in this world, do not make Civ V a kiddie game with jokey leaders (Pericles joshing around with his buds off-camera? what?) and other rubbish.

Give us a serious gaming environment, something with some dignity to it at least.

PC Strategy games, done properly, are the modern 21st equivalent of Chess. Games that keep this in mind are rewarded.

Don't give us this: http://www.entertainmentearth.com/im...CH012101lg.jpg

This is serious. If I invest 3 days of time into my Civ empire, it better not be a joke.

Loved the BTS expansion (because it borrowed some of the best ideas from CTPII), but have had a hard time getting into Civ since Civ 3 because of the juvenile turn the game has taken. I even had a store clerk chuckle at me when he had to go into the back and get a copy of Civ IV for me. His comment to me as we looked at the box was, "You play this game?" "Not yet" was my response, and 'not for long' I would have said a week later after all the mood breaking leaders kept prancing about the screen.

Rattle some cages if you have to, crack some heads, persuade them with honey and gold, whatever you have to do, but this would really improve the gaming Civ gaming environment for me (and others I suspect).

[Mr Justice]

ummm this strikes me as being a bit snobbish imo.

id play chess on that board no problem, if it was a serious game against a another decent player i'll see past the guady figures and think about it in terms of chess rules and how chess is played.

also this forum is full of peeps calling for the return of the civ 2 leaders, to me they are fluff, no impact of the core game so i'll take as much in as i want (not a lot for me).

beyond that, you havn't stated any other concrete dislike, which gives the developers free licence to ignore your legitimate point (from your pespective).

[ahenobarb]

This post is to share the one thing that I most dislike about Civ IV. The cartoonish and juvenile interactions in the game.

A long list of other suggestions would just be an exercise in futility and the more important bits (like the above) would get lost in a sea of "suggestions". I can tuck those into notes, cork them into bottles and chunk them out to sea in other forum topics.

This one stands out above all others. Because even if you do the thing with the hexes and the armies do the other thing, and you add more commerce, or family trees and put your left foot in and your right foot out the game will still stink if its got a cartoonish overlay.

And I'm not graphics snob, I play Paradox games with very basic graphics. Better basic graphics than Tinky Winky as Ghengis Khan.

[Dinner]

I'm afraid each generation has dumbed the game down just a little bit and now that console systems sell more games then PCs (and mostly kids play console systems) this process is just going to accelerate.

[Ming]

As long as the game is good, I really don't care about jokey leaders. I just ignore that stuff. If that's the price for them developing a game that makes money, I have no problem with it.

[ahenobarb]

Very true. But if one of our own is at the helm, we can dream right? Or at least nudge him in the right direction.

[Ming]

It's fine to "dream"... but then there is the reality of making money. I just want a good game. All the frills that they need to sell more copies is fine by me as long as the game itself is great. I'm just being realistic.

[Wernazuma III]

I'm also concerned that all the energy that went into flashy graphics and leader and unit animation could have better been used in creating a deeper game play.

I hope I'm wrong - if so, I don't mind that development at all.
What I don't want is a Civ-Rev II (don't get me wrong, Civ-Rev ist OK, but it's not proper CIV).

[Dinner]

I have a feeling this will be Civ Rev 2 and then we'll have to wait for the expansion packs to get something remotely adult out of it.

[Mr Justice]

imo this is overly negative for no justification.

graphics are an esential part of any game, even a turn based god simulator game, their are always new players and more importantly new games which this series must compete with (total war, empires ect).

civ has always lagged these games in visual aspects, i dont see this changing for civ 5, i'm not ecpecting to be wowwed. i would certainly differentiate the leaders video from the world look.

the hexes change appears (from screenshots) to improve the look of the world. imo a good move, as other games far outstrip Civ in this area.
without knowing the details i would think this job involves both ddevelopers and gfx desighers.

unit animations, considering the total number of units and in general the range of animation (number of moves they can do, based from previous civ games), i cant see a huge amount of work here, and what is is purelfy for gfx designers or modelers .

leader animations, are these anydifferent from the intro movies? look at once or mabey twice and then ignore from then on? i think so. again i would hazard a guess that its not developers who produce this but someone else.

now if the company have reduced the number of developers and increased the number of gfx peeps working on the game then i can see a legitimate point here.

otherwise i would think its just civ keeping up with the jones's. (and will fall short imo), but i wont care becuase its all the other game stuff which entertains me.
I also reckon they know what their players like and will provide it. call me naive if you want.

[Dermo]

OK, you're naive just kidding
Actually I agree with you
I don't expect to be 'wowwed' by the graphics and never really have, that's not why i buy the games.
At the same time there are a lot of games (IMO) with much more cartoonish graphics than CIV 4

"And I'm not graphics snob, I play Paradox games with very basic graphics. Better basic graphics than Tinky Winky as Ghengis Khan."

P.S. I googled Tinky Winky and he looks nothing like Genghis Khan

[ahenobarb]

P.S. I googled Tinky Winky and he looks nothing like Genghis Khan

How bout now?

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq188/ahen_01/TinkyKahn.jpg

Ladies and Gents, Run! It's Tinky Kahn!!

Quick, dirty, fun!

[Brael]

I actually liked the leader animations in civ 4. Pericles was off a little but the rest were pretty good I thought, though a bit lacking in facial expressions.

[Quintillus]

I agree with ahenobarb, but I don't expect many positive changes in this direction from Civ5, given the early screenshots. It's possible that the terrains and whatnot will be less cartoonish in the end, but the leaderheads appears to be a lost cause.

I suspect the cartoonish art is tilting more of the budget towards art rather than the game itself. The budget probably is larger, so the core game may have just as many (possibly more developers), but these cartoonish graphics don't add value over Civ3's leaderheads to the game to me - on the whole, I prefer Civ3's leaderheads.

And they may be trying to keep up with the SEGAs, but Total War has much more serious and (imo) better graphics than Civ4/Civ5 (from current screenshots). Total War has added very good, but realistic - at least not cartoonish, graphics; why can't Civ?

[Azuarc]

I got a chuckle the first couple times I saw references to Wind Beneath My Wings. After that, my eyes just glossed over it, as they would for any other possible message. I really didn't pay the leaders much mind, either.

I really don't care TOO much about the graphics as long as they are serviceable. In the grand scheme, you want images that are easier on the eyes, and if those happen to be cartoonish, so be it. That's a better use of time than trying to create a full lifelike 3-D rendering of all the leaders and units, and tying up system resources trying to display them. Obviously, the D&D tiles from Civ I aren't coming back, so make them as decent as possible without taxing the system.

And for the love of God, no more slow-ass Python scripts. I want a game that runs, not crawls.