Asymmetrical warfare

[Ur]

One of the interesting things about Civ is the way that each iteration tracks against developments in our understanding of significant historical events but also particularly developments in modern war units. (i.e. stealth bomber etc)

I've bee wondering if they will start considering impact of a post 9/11 world. The situation is way more complex that "who's got the bomb"

Maybe in the wider context of history the terrorism/freedom fighter era that dominates strategic thinking now will just be a blip.

Personally I'd like them to address ways in which states could wage war by asymmetrical means - having freedom fighters pop up inside your territory would be freaky. Taking over a country which is at a technical dis-advantage but whose people keep taking the fight back to the enemy through stealth - would present some interesting hearts and minds decisions to be made.

Thoughts anyone?

[giblets]

And of course, you could fund terrorists to create problems for the other players.

[Hauldren Collider]

Sounds like espionage.

[LDiCesare]

Terrorism can mostly be represented as spying actions that kill some population/destroy improvements/lower morale or happiness.

Asymmetric warfare was really important in Spain under Napoleon (hence guerilla, a spanish word, being used in many tongues). Civ 2 partisans were cool but once you knew they'd pop up, you just put many units around the city you attacked to take care of the incoming partisans so it wasn't a very effective way of representing such warfare. Cultural flipping of conquered cities was more efficient at representing this kind of guerilla, but became only an option, so I think it wasn't that popular.

[ahenobarb]

having freedom fighters pop up inside your territory would be freaky. Taking over a country which is at a technical dis-advantage but who's people keep taking the fight back to the enemy through stealth - would present some interesting hearts and minds decisions to be made.

Thoughts anyone?

See EU3 for a good system that handles this concept. Rebels with a cause and a purpose that can have a real effect on the outcome of the game.

[Shogun Gunner]

Civ2 had the partisans popping up in the countryside when a city was taken. I always thought that feature was kinda cool, but discontinued in Civ3 and cIV. I agree with Hauldren Collider that what you describe sounds like espionage.

BTW - I remember starting a thread in the Civ4 section before Civ4 was released with exactly same title of "Asymmetrical warfare." Time flies.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Partisans, or "enemy units" are in BTS when you raze an enemy city, and I like this concept too... still going on what I read so far, I am wandering how will the game warfare really work out without stacking on the same tile???

[Ur]

hmmm...I guess the thing is - "standard military doctrine" has had a big shake up since the first CIV came out and particularly in the last 10 years. The challenge (as the U.S of A is fond of telling us) is securing your borders against an enemy that is prepared to operate in unconventional ways.
Future war isn't giant robots (thank you Call to Power) - its trucks full of fertilizer and mortar teams behind walls. Not that its a future concept really, as someone has pointed out the "Spanish Ulcer" dragged Bony's generals down and the Commando concept came from the Boers using unconventional tactics on British.

Its a bit more than spies I think - but I see the difficulty in representing it in a game.

[MxM]

I do think that culture flips are the best thing here. All other suggestions are too much unnecessary micromanagement, IMO, without much dept in the gameplay.

[MxM]

A bit off topic, but Ur, how did you manage to have only 13 posts, with join date May 2000? And 2 of those posts are in this thread! And I thought I am low on posts...

[iamakka]

I was listening to an interesting program on the World Service last night about Sun Tsu's 'Art of War', and how various organisations today such as the IRA stick pretty closely to the concepts of asymmetric warfare laid down on paper 2500 years ago.
The Civ 4 espionage system allowed you to replicate many of the effects of such tactics, but I'm struggling to think of a way to implement this sort of thing without throwing out game balance. Some sort of war weariness modifier nations could throw money at?

[SpencerH]

The most innovative asymetrical warfare strategies in civ IMO were the 'pollute the world' strategy (specific for the green faction (Gaians?)) and 'ICS' both of which were developed in SMAC.