No tech trading in Civ5?

[Dinner]

I've heard a rumor that there will be no tech trading allowed in Civ5. Is this true? I'm kind of at a lose since tech trading has been in every version of the game I can think of even if ladder games normally turned it off. If there is no tech trading then how do you think they'll model technological diffusion? Just use the old standby of making techs cheaper if a neighbor already has it (or perhaps just if any civ knows it even if you haven't contacted them yet)?

[Ming]

They did mention that they were going to allow Tech Research sharing, where you can research a tech with another player to get it faster by combining research.

[rah]

I won't miss tech trading and I do hope that the AI isn't programmed to always agree to researching sharing with other AI's while ignoring you.

[Dinner]

They did mention that they were going to allow Tech Research sharing, where you can research a tech with another player to get it faster by combining research.

I do like that idea but I also heard that if you joint research something and then later go to war you lose the jointly researched tech. Is that true or just a rumor?

[Ming]

There was some discussion on that... and nobody knows for sure since there wasn't much "specific".

But most are assuming that if you go to war, it means you will lose all the beakers that you have been working together on, and NOT all the techs you have researched in the past... but who really knows at this point

[Dinner]

OK, that sounds pretty reasonable.

[Azuarc]

Tech trading is a multi-edged sword.

In Civ 1-3, essentially anyone could trade techs at any time. However, in Civ 4, with the requirement of alphabet, early tech trading was actually a commodity a savvy player could broker nicely. Supposing that you can convince the AI to trade.

The biggest problem with tech trading was that the A.I. notoriously shared with itself, while very frequently refusing to deal with the player or insisting on highly unfavorable trades.

However, IMO, the worst part is the diplomatic side. You would get spammed for requests for tech, including wanting tech for free...sometimes as a demand. This led to diplomatic problems, and it was invariable that every Civ would hate you for not sharing your one tech they didn't have at some point in the game. There's no Negotiate option where you say "I'll give it you for..." or "How about I offer you XXX instead?" And then you end up at war. Because of tech trading.

Still, it did speed up your research when you could find a reliable trading partner or two. In some regards, research partners does solve this problem, but honestly I see it as a potential hindrance if your research partner ends up being beaker-poor or doesn't see eye to eye on what to research. I assume that "Tech Partner" is an ongoing status since it would be a pain to constantly have to renegotiate a partner on every tech.

And it does concern me that there will likely be no option to earn tech through any means besides researching things yourself. This is mostly a plus for me, but there were times when I'd play a money game, and frequently buy tech from other Civs. As it stands without tech trading, if you don't have beakers yourself, you have no future! For a Civ revision that is making renewed focus on combat, it seems like that would make commerce much more important.

[Ming]

Well... if there is espionage like there is in Civ IV, you can still steal techs.
I always liked the concept that you would get a tech from another civ if you took a city. Now, maybe one tech per city was too much, but maybe if you took their Cap, or mulitple cities, you should get a tech. It only makes sense when you think about it.

[rah]

Yeah, I miss that. At least for caps, but it sounds like they've added incentive to taking out caps.

[Adagio]

I'm glad that tech-trading is not in. In Civ IV I always made it only possible to trade techs you got yourself, but as others has mentioned, it was hell whenever the player has a tech that the AI's doesn't. Every turn there is at least one AI asking for a tech (most of the time it's demanding, not sharing) and most AI's doesn't like to share certain techs with the player

I also liked the "Conquer a city, get a tech", but I'd say there should be some changes to it. Maybe something like this:
Instead of getting a tech every time (if possible), there should only be beakers for the winner. Maybe a small amount of beakers for several techs the loser has compared to the winner.

Ok, it's just a quick idea, that I haven't thought through yet...

[onodera]

Perhaps you could get a tech only if there was an improvement/building enabled/upgraded by that tech?
For example, if you capture a city with a courtroom, you get code of laws. If you capture a city and there's a mill next to it, you get engineering or whatever that tech was.

[Ming]

It just makes sense... whenever you take over another civ, you learn what they know.

One way to deal with it might be to give you significant beakers toward any tech you don't have, so you don't have to learn them from scratch.

[rah]

Yes, reverse engineering is common.
Look, I just conquered this civ and I found a cannon. I think it will take shorter to figure out how to make one if I'm looking at one.

[Krill]

It just makes sense... whenever you take over another civ, you learn what they know.

One way to deal with it might be to give you significant beakers toward any tech you don't have, so you don't have to learn them from scratch.

Broken. No point being a peacemonger if the warmonger gets all of those benefits whilst conquering the peaceful entities.

Basically, any argument that involves realism won't ever fly. You need to use an argument that it benefits gameplay, or you just get laughed at by Firaxis and ignored.

[Ming]

What... five civs that are pleased with you attack you instead of the guys they hate... and that benefits gameplay how?