Economics and trade

[Kropotkin]

Hi,
as a long time absentee of Apolyton, I heard the news yesterday about Civ5 and was lured back today. After some time spent with the regular exercise of Kremlinology, trying to decipher the meaning from vague previews and early posts I thought I might as well start a thread about my topic of interest.

What interests me is the issues of the games models for economics and trade. As a grim Malthusian by nature I have always liked the basic concept of the Civ-series economic model. I have, however, never liked the trading aspect of the game.

Two findings from my Kremlinological field study was the removal of the spaghetti of roads (also and not least, from an aesthetic point of view) and the different form av cultural expansion (a concept I really liked before).

The idea, from what I have gathered, seems to be that the roads should signal something important and that cultural expansion depends on the economic activity of the city itself.

Is this all we know about about the economy of Civ5 and what does it mean?

[Ming]

The economy aspects of CivV really haven't been covered in the articles that have been published.
I'm sure they will have something in place to slow down city spam... but one of the biggest costs has always been fielding an army, expecially out of your own territory. Also, one of the best sources of money was religion and shrines, which won't be in Civ V.

If anybody has seen anything on this topic, I would love a link to it.

[Kropotkin]

I suppose the reason why we haven´t heard much is that models for trade and economics is not exactly a good selling point that creates attention from the casual gamer. More work with international trade would be a big plus in my humble opinion.

[Dinner]

I'd like to see more automatic trading occuring especially with open borders and in the more free market civics choices. Something like the trade routes in Civ4 but more dynamic based on supply and demand along with resources available for trade.

[Ming]

I would like a good economic model... but I hope they balance a good system with not to much details. While trade caravans were "fun" and very useful in Civ II... it really slowed down the game and made for some long turns. (especially with ship chaining). I would like a solid but easy economic system. I agree some additional and DIFFERENT civics with some automatic trading would be good. But if it's something that takes a lot of time per turn to maximize, it will be a problem.

[rah]

The one thing that I really liked in IV was the peace modifiers. You did take a hit when you betrayed your best bud.

[Blaupanzer]

The one thing that I really liked in IV was the peace modifiers. You did take a hit when you betrayed your best bud.

To what do you refer? Other than direct resource for resource trades and any trades with civs that now can't reach you due to Best bud's cultural borders, I see no negative economic effects at all. Since the only reason to attack a civ is to take it out completely, I don't even see these effects as long-lasting.

[Azuarc]

I think he meant the diplomacy bonuses.

[rah]

Mouse over your trade routes in the city screen. You'll see a peace bonus modifier on some of your trade routes. Obviously if you go to war with that civ your trade routes will switch. You will usually get reassigned trade routes of lesser value. If you had a lot of trade routes with that civ, you will notice the difference.

[Dinner]

In Civ4 was it better to have a lot of trade routes with one civ or lots of little trade routes with many civs?

[Ming]

It doesn't matter if they are all with the same civ or split. What does matter is the size of the trade route. It automatically selects the largest (most money) trade route available to the city, no matter which available civ it is.

[rah]

It matters most in those two continent games where you're down to your last "buddy" on your own continent (assuming no contact with the other one yet) and it's time for him to go. All your trade routes will lose the peace bonus and be transformed to domestic routes.

And I always like to finish off my continent before contacts to avoid the "you declared war on our friend" modifiers.

[Dinner]

I hadn't thought about that but the "you declared war on my friends" thing is a good point.

[rah]

Yeah, if contact had already happened, I'll try to taunt/trick the AI into attacking me.
Besides the normal, never do what they ask, and demand outrageous things, I'd move all but one troop out of border site to bait them. Once you see the troops massing you know they've already decided to attack so you can reset you defenses.

[MxM]

I'd move all but one troop out of border site to bait them.

Are you sure that it actually works, or would they attack you anyway?