Mac Civ3 news

[Pods]

I have some news about the Mac version of Civilization III.

I emailed the feedback address at Westlake Interactive, the company porting the game to Mac, asking whether or not the game would be in ‘Classic’ (native to Mac OS 9 only, though playable through a compatibility layer in Apple’s new Mac OS X) or in ‘Carbon’ (native to Mac OS X, enabling it to take advantage of modern OS features such as protected memory, while still normally playable within Mac OS 9); in effect, whether it was native to the old Mac OS 9 or the new Mac OS X. This is the response I got, and very quickly too (within five minutes on a Sunday!):

“Chances are it will be natively Carbon.”
-Suellen Adams, Business Coordinator, Westlake Interactive, Inc.”

Meaning it will be native to Mac OS X, though (probably) still playable in Mac OS 9.

S.

[d_dudy]

THE DAMN THING BETTER RUN ON 8.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(in case it doesn't, can anyone tell me how i could get os 9 for free?)

[JellyDonut]

I don't think you can get OS 9 free but I'm sure you can get a really cheap 8.6>9 upgrade from Apple ( http://www.apple.com ). I sincerely doubt that you'll need it however. I think the minimum Mac OS will be between 8.0 and 8.5. I have OS 9.1, but since I have a Windows 98 emulator, I'll be playing the game this November

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by JellyDonut
I don't think you can get OS 9 free but I'm sure you can get a really cheap 8.6>9 upgrade from Apple ( http://www.apple.com ). I sincerely doubt that you'll need it however. I think the minimum Mac OS will be between 8.0 and 8.5. I have OS 9.1, but since I have a Windows 98 emulator, I'll be playing the game this November

although i do not agree with your use of an emulator and do not appreciate your taunting i am atleast glad the funds for your computer went to the right people (apple)

i agree about the os, we've discussed in the mac forum that surely it will run on 8.6 (as damn near all games or anything else aimed at a wide mac audience, seeing how most of us use 8.6)but this new news makes me wonder

and i kinda doubt i can os9 cheap, it was like 100+$ when it came out but maybe with osX out i could get it cheap. i'd still rather not go through the trouble

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by d_dudy
and i kinda doubt i can os9 cheap, it was like 100+$ when it came out but maybe with osX out i could get it cheap. i'd still rather not go through the trouble

I remember when OS9 came out, OS8 was really cheap, and an upgrade from a fairly recent version of OS7 was even cheaper. That's the wonderful thing about the computer industry: it's always really cheap to stay 1 step behind everybody else.

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by JellyDonut


I remember when OS9 came out, OS8 was really cheap, and an upgrade from a fairly recent version of OS7 was even cheaper. That's the wonderful thing about the computer industry: it's always really cheap to stay 1 step behind everybody else.

yeah, but i just don't wanna change everything over. some of my programs might not work and the other people using this computer will ***** about everything being differant when they don't understand it now

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by d_dudy
yeah, but i just don't wanna change everything over. some of my programs might not work and the other people using this computer will ***** about everything being differant when they don't understand it now

When I got OS9, I didn't have any problems with my old apps not working. It's really not that much different from OS8. There are a few interface touch-ups and a new version of Sherlock, increased Unicode support, etc. but I'm really not sure why they didn't call it OS8.7 to be honest. Any user of OS8 comes quickly literate in the new OS. I'm kind of disheartened to see the old "Label" menu has been demoted to a mere submenu of "File" though. All in all, it's probably worth the upgrade if you're going to need it to run a program but not for much else.

[Bleyn]

Actually, OS9 did change quite a bit. Its just that most of the changes were hidden where most people wouldn't notice them. Namely in all that underlying code base that makes it work.

One area I happen to know changed massively is the networking code. When OS9 came out I was working in TS for a company that made (among other things) some home networking products that included one USB-based model that was Mac and PC compatible. When it was built, our engineers only had OS8.x to play with for Mac, and based it on that. It worked just fine with 8.x. The changes in the underlying code of OS9's networking were so big that it just plain would not work in OS9 without massive changes on our part.

Apple is pretty good about their revision numbers for the OS. When they released OS9, they picked that number for a reason. It really was a major change to them. It just wasn't obviously so to everyone else.


As for Civ3 Mac being Carbon and not Classic.... I don't blame Westlake in the least. Apple has made it very clear that this is the direction they are taking their OS. Westlake, Firaxis, and most importantly Infogrames would most likely want this game Mac compatible for as long as possible. Programming it in Carbon insures that compatiblity.

[Drake Tungsten]

I was hoping for a Cocoa based port of Civ 3, but that was probably a pipe dream from the start. Oh well, a Carbon version is good enough for me. OS 10.1 is so great, it has totally made up for the months I spent with the crappy OS 10. No more rebooting into 9 for me (except to print....damn pre-USB G3 ).

Not that you guys care, but I would seriously recommend upgrading from 8.6 to 9. I got it with X in the spring and it really is a worthwhile upgrade. The language kits alone are worth the upgrade, if you want to write in Japanese or something. Maybe that's just me. But the overall system performance is better too, and the improved support for the Carbon Lib will probably help out when running a Carbonized Civ 3.

[d_dudy]

markos even made it a news item

damn, i guess i reallly will have to upgrade. anyone now how much this will cost?

[bradman]

Originally posted by d_dudy
THE DAMN THING BETTER RUN ON 8.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi there,

Brad Oliver here, programmer for Westlake on the Civ3 port, along with John Butler.

The game will be carbon, and will definitely run on MacOS 8.6 (e.g. CarbonLib 1.2.5) and up at a minimum. I have no idea where the MacOS 9+ info came from - that's totally wrong. There's a chance the minimum system requirements will drop to 8.1 (e.g. CarbonLib 1.0.4), but it's a bit too early in development to guarantee that.

I tried to send a clarifying e-mail to markg@apolyton.net just now, but it bounced with a "relaying denied" message.

Brad

[Drake Tungsten]

bradman, i know you guys are still pretty early in the devlopment process, but do you have a rough idea of what the minimum system requirements will be? i have a G3 beige/266, which isn't that old but has seemed to be getting closer to obsolesence each day......

oh and best of luck on the porting process, all of us Mac users are counting on you guys for this game

[bradman]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
bradman, i know you guys are still pretty early in the devlopment process, but do you have a rough idea of what the minimum system requirements will be? i have a G3 beige/266, which isn't that old but has seemed to be getting closer to obsolesence each day......

It'll be similar to the PC specs. I should point out that it appears the PC version uses software OpenGL for some stuff, so that may factor into the Mac port. Any firm specs would be guesswork on my part as I haven't even tried to run it on a low-end Mac yet, and we're not to the point where we're looking to optimize for RAM or speed yet either.

Brad

[Gatekeeper]

Bradman:

First of all, you should ask Markos for an "official" title (say "Westlake Civ3 Programmer"). It's one of the perks offered to those in officialdom who participate in the discussions at Apolyton.

Secondly, I'd be more than happy if Civ III could run efficiently on an 8.5.1 333mhz 160 RAM iMac. If not ... hmm, well, I'll get the game no matter what. I might just say the hell with it all and sacrifice my savings to buy the latest iMac carrying OS10.1 (or higher, since I don't plan on doing that unless I have to). I've already had to dig into the guts of my machine to upgrade the memory to 160 and didn't like that too much. Hmm ... would there be anyplace I could buy or DL OS9x?

Anyway, welcome to Apolyton, Bradman. Hope to see you around from time to time!

CYBERAmazon

[d_dudy]

Originally posted by bradman


Hi there,

Brad Oliver here, programmer for Westlake on the Civ3 port, along with John Butler.

The game will be carbon, and will definitely run on MacOS 8.6 (e.g. CarbonLib 1.2.5) and up at a minimum. I have no idea where the MacOS 9+ info came from - that's totally wrong. There's a chance the minimum system requirements will drop to 8.1 (e.g. CarbonLib 1.0.4), but it's a bit too early in development to guarantee that.

I tried to send a clarifying e-mail to markg@apolyton.net just now, but it bounced with a "relaying denied" message.

Brad

1st, i'd like to apolagize for the way i said that (this is the first instance in wich a programmer has responded to a mac question here so i thought no one but fellow maccers was reading)
2nd, i'd like to welcome you here and i hope you get an official title soon
3rd, thanks! everyone was telling me i'd have to upgrade and i believed it! i'm really relieved!

well, hope to see more of your posts



i better go over to wiggy's thread and fix what i said