The weapon of democracy...

[illiria]

...is the chopper. Long live MMI.

What techs do you love the most?

[Killjoy]

MMI is definitely tough to beat. It may actually be a little too powerful. Gotta love those choppers though.

In the early game I really like Planetary Networks. Probe teams, The Virtual World, access to Librarians, Hologram Theatres (if needed), and Planned economy. Its a pretty good place to start, and just a short (hopefully) jump to Industrial Automation (another favourite).

But choppers are sweet!

[illiria]

As much as I like to play the Hive (also the Drones are nice.. I find planned to be most valuable, in addition to wealth/knowledge, of course police state is mandatory with the hive since you dont get negative efficiency.

Probe Teams I dont really use that often. But the other day I played the Angels and after having infiltrated 4 other guys I still didnt get all the tech they had? (I had to research the level 1 techs myself). Is this because I had directed research on? Also I have never seen a screen telling me which techs I got from Spying and which my own researchers got?!

Librarians: I have never really given much thought to the different kinds of workers I had...am I missing something?!

about strategy: I am playing this one game with Flomper (me being the Hive) and I just love the productive capacity of the Hive: My top producing cities all hav about 60 Production with 10 population or so...every damn rocky area/flat area is being mined and harvested

[Killjoy]

Ahhh...the Hive. My favourite faction. One I've played so much in SP that its way too easy now. Incredible growth and industry, with built in defenses to boot! I think the Hive has to be the ultimate builder faction—IMO better than the Drones. The Hive can crank out the expansion; both vertical and horizontal like nobodies business, and is still flexible enough to easily switch half (or all if you are feeling particularly ruthless) the empire into war production—producing formidable troops on a large scale, in no time—if some fool comes noising around. Beat back the 'meagre' enemy force, and then send in the invasion to teach them a lesson they won't soon forget. All the while you're still 'developing' the core of your empire.

I know the Drones have a higher industry bonus then the Hive, and often stand to out produce the Hive, but IMO its the Hive’s flexibility that make then a better (and more dangerous) faction. The Hive’s industry and growth bonus make them more than a match for the other factions, and their Perimeter defense and ability to go Police State within five or six turns make them my choice over the Drones. If the Drones start out producing you as the Hive, then its just a quick shift on production focus and in 10 turns you'll have a formidable force to go and 'bring them back into Collective.'

Specialists are an important part of Hive strategy. They all help the Hive to push the 'envelope' on expansion and development. And I can't say enough about Probe Teams. If you're not using Probe Teams then you're crippling your faction. Especially if playing the Hive.

If played right Hive research will rival and even surpass the University’s, by late game (i.e. one tech per turn—even had one game where I was getting two per turn).

Finally, the biggest problem to overcome when playing the Hive is going bankrupt in the early-mid game. That Industry bonus makes it so easy to build stuff, lots of stuff. But the Hive just doesn't have the energy reserves to maintain it all easily in the early-mid game. Engineers and the ME will help to protect against this in the early game. If you can avoid going bankrupt, then the Hive will soon become the unstoppable Juggernaut we all hate playing against in SP, but with a human at the helm, not some AI.

illira: Directed research shouldn't effect your Probe Team’s ability to steal techs. Does just infiltrating a faction with a Data Angel Probe Team grant you stolen tech, or do you have to perform the standard probe action to steal the tech? Having not played the Data Angels I'm not sure. Sorry.
[This message has been edited by Killjoy (edited February 20, 2001).]

[illiria]

Data Angels: according to the manual and the datalink file on "Planetary Datalinks" you just get the tech for free.

[Qualicide]

I would have to say advanced space flight... +2 industry from drones makes those PBs pop out much faster

[Flomper]

I don't have a favorite tech for ant practical reasons, but I really like using tanks -- I think they look cool, plus they are like ground copters, good to attack a city and take it over in one turn.

[Qualicide]

quote: Originally posted by Killjoy on 02-20-2001 10:21 AM I know the Drones have a higher industry bonus then the Hive, and often stand to out produce the Hive, but IMO its the Hive’s flexibility that make then a better (and more dangerous) faction. The Hive’s industry and growth bonus make them more than a match for the other factions.]

flexablity? how do you consider no income and crappy tech a match for flexablity? without allies the hive will never have the tech lead, just the countless units

BTW, Oni rocks
[This message has been edited by Qualicide (edited March 01, 2001).]

[illiria]

Q: Thats odd...I have always won with The Hive, being technological leader, having major income and kicking everybodys ass. You just have to know how to play the Hive....and allies are not really necessary, although they help. Remember: No inefficiency with the Hive!

[Qualicide]

illiria- this is the AI though, I can out reserch them playing as the believers with no specialists, try and outreserch a human as zak
[This message has been edited by Qualicide (edited March 01, 2001).]

[illiria]

well...you dont need to do research if you can overrun them

[Killjoy]

The short answer IMHO to the flexibility question is;

The Hive’s ability to build a massive infrastructure, produce huge amounts of resources, and serious population gives the Hive player THE flexibilty to do most anything he wants in the mid-late game.

For example, the Hive faction has the flexibilty to easily switch from an internal 'growth' focus (ie. infrastructure, research, economy, population) to a serious war focus, without suffering any of the setbacks that most other factions have to juggle with (ie. ecomonic/industrial/research slow down, support issues, SE changes in order to conduct an effective campaign—can't really stay in FM to conduct a serious war). That in IMHO makes them so versatile and so very strong.

By mid-game the Hive doesn't really have the above setbacks to be concerned with when planning strategy. If played well, Hive research will be on par with the best research factions (because of the huge infrastructure—lots of bases, each with network nodes, research hospitals, Bio labs, lots of crawlers, and a growing pop), energy credits aren't a huge concern anymore (as above, plus a few key secret projects, which aren't a problem to get at this point), and support really isn't an issue (Police State, HUGE mineral production). Its business as usual. When its time to go to war, half the empire is usually more than enough to facilitate the needs of a serious, aggressive campaign. The other half can continue to grow and expand, researching new techs, building better infrastructure, terraforming like mad, and continuing to build those ever so special secret projects!

The massive Hive infrastructure also allows the Hive player the freedom and flexibilty to effectively maintain more than one focus. Conduct a war, facilitate research, maintain growth, and build infrastructure. All at the same time, while most other factions will need to divert all their resources just to conduct a serious war effort, whether for defence if attacked, or to mount an effective offensive (one that doesn't lose steam shortly after it gets started).

This all assumes SP of course. My experience in MP is quite limited. I've only played two MP games, both as the Hive. But I suspect the same could be applied to a MP game, hopefully to the same effect.

But Qualicide, you are right that in a strict tech race (no conflict, just research) the Hive would most likely lose out against a competent Human opponent playing a research-focused faction, but not for lack of trying. But then again, that scenario never happens (ie. no conflict, just research). In SP the AI always comes looking for a fight. And I would suspect the same happens in MP, if not the AI then some other player.

You are also correct that in the early game the Hive suffers from an acute lack of energy, and thus income and research. But, when played by a human, they are also less likely to be overrun by any faction early on! Therefore they can expand without much worry. Stay out of trouble, and focus on mass terraforming and infrastructure. And its that infrastructure that will eventually pay off by mid-game.

They are a slow and methodical faction. But with patience they will become a true juggernaut!

Finally, as you know each player has a unique play style, and thus will gravitate to particular factions that complement their style. I have trouble with the Spartans, Morgans, and Gains. But the Hive suits my style nicely.

Whew! Sorry for the lengthy post.

P.S. And illiria’s right, if you can't out-tech 'em you can always over-run 'em.

[This message has been edited by Killjoy (edited March 02, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Killjoy (edited March 02, 2001).]