Empire Earth II diplomacy: for Civ?

[Trifna]

Here I resume a GameSpy article (resumed below) about EA2 (Empire Earth 2; don't be afraid, there isn't a Electronic Arts 2).

I think that Civ could learn from this. Just a FEW little possibilities can truly reach the vast reality of diplomacy, as long as the few rules are well chosen. Diplomacy needs an overhaul, and such a simple but complete way to look at things could seemingly make little miracles.



To resume, the options of diplomac agreements are:
1- durations
2- LOS sharing (so you see other's armies)
3- border permission, and
4- ressource tariff

But from this few and simple rules... so much fun and so many strategic options come in:

"I'm gonna mess you up, but not now. " This is typically a timed alliance I make with someone I don't fear. I'll let them move through my base, because I want to move through theirs, and I don't really care if you see my stuff. In fact, it may help to scare you away from doing something dumb. Beware, though. Your erstwhile "ally" could have another alliance and be feeding info to a more powerful foe.

"I respect your power, and I need to work with you to kill someone even bigger." This is a timed alliance with no border permissions, because you don't want a surprise army waiting in your base when the alliance expires. Give LOS from units so you can coordinate troops, but why reveal where all your buildings are? Remember, you can still use spies on allies!

"I'm gonna mess you up at any moment." This alliance is not timed, and does not reveal LOS, because I don't want you to see the massive army I'm sending your way to break the treaty.

"I am but a submissive dog; this is my belly, please don't eviscerate me." When I'm seriously in trouble, I'll offer up untimed, full LOS, full border permissions, lots of tributes treaties to whoever will listen. By being so clearly helpless, you can often be thought of as a pawn by a more powerful player, and this can buy you time -- or kill you.

After getting an idea of this, do you disagree with me that so much can be done from so little and simple? Only FOUR little things, and it becomes a game with diplomatic depth (batteries and backstabbing included). From so little...

Comments? Wouldn't these simple 4 rules apply well? Are there other simple rules which would complement well?

[dexters]

I think you're desire for more diplomatic depth for Civ4 is shared by many.

That said, I'm not too keen on borrowing another game's ideas and shoehorn it into Civ4. Whatever 'new' diplomacy options is created should work in the context of the game.

Off the top of my head, here's a few suggestions that tend to come up a lot

-multi-party agreements
-ability to intervene to stop a war
-unit trading (i personally don't like this idea)
-cold war style alliances (see multi-party agreements)
that develop [not the same as locked alliances]
-UN that allows for binding global laws to be passed.

[Elda king]

how about diplomacy with more than one civ at time? You should be able to trade with only one, or with all them. This would allow you to create blocks, alliances and massive pacts. Make possible to make allies' units capable of be in same squares that yours, like Open Harbors that allow a player's ships to enter on an allied coastal city or Open Fly Space, to allow allies' units to use yours airports (and the same for you).

[Vince278]

How about a multi-national stock market for trading?
I also liked the idea of a UN-like political body like in MOO3.

[Trifna]

What I am saying is that this other game succeeded in bringing lots more, from very little in terms of additions/management/whatnot. It's incredibly simple and brings incredibly alot.

From there, perhaps something can be done in such a fashion.

[Shogun Gunner]

I think improved diplomacy and negotiated agreements with the AI would vastly improve the game. Such a vast majority of games are played in SP mode.