In-House Preview Part 5: "Governing Yourselves"

[Stuie]

Intro movie link is broken.

[DanQ]

Originally posted by Stuie
Intro movie link is broken.

-- corrected. Appreciate the heads-up.

Enjoy.

[PosSibley]

I've been enjoying this read, catching up on all the old parts I missed, and I decided to register, maybe make some counterpoint for fun (and profit).

Regarding your criticism of Fundamentalism possibly being unbalanced, I believe it's hard to determine at this point.

In early game the bonus is comparable to ~25%, but you also have much smaller unit production. Perhaps they believe the benefits of higher population/production cities generating larger armies, multiple cities doing the generating, and everything that comes with capturing enemy cities outweighs the need for a %-age.

With the army system I think a % will break the mechanics because a tank army would get an immense bonus compared to it's level in the research tree.

This is excluding the fact that the 100% elite bonus applies to your +1 attack (per unit), and it isn't clear (to me) if an army gets one for each unit: +3 for an army (which would be +6 with 100% elite bonus and more with hill/forest bonus). In this game a slight military advantage can be a major advantage, especially if you can capture the right towns.

Hard to say whether it will be balanced compared to a palace culture bonus (that you could dominate), I won't know til I play.

[DanQ]

Originally posted by PosSibley
I've been enjoying this read,

Thanks.

catching up on all the old parts I missed, and I decided to register, maybe make some counterpoint for fun (and profit).

While my position on Fundamentalism's attack bonus value has not changed, it has softened as discussed below as you have outlined some good points for it to not be percentage-based as I've suggested.

In early game the bonus is comparable to ~25%, but you also have much smaller unit production. Perhaps they believe the benefits of higher population/production cities generating larger armies, multiple cities doing the generating, and everything that comes with capturing enemy cities outweighs the need for a %-age.

In comparison to CivIV, we're most likely not going to have as many cities on average as the maps are smaller as is the possible number of workable tiles of each. Further, each terrain type carries one of food, hammers and commerce (save the occasional civ-based bonus). This strikes me as city specialization being even more desirable if not critical in CivRev and therefore you're not going to have as high a portion of your cities churning out military units at any one time.

With the army system I think a % will break the mechanics because a tank army would get an immense bonus compared to it's level in the research tree.

Yes, a %-based attack value increase would be quite strong in the later game as in your example. Yet just as immense on the science side while you'd enjoy this benefit you take the immense hit of having both your Libraries and Universities shut down. Both are outrageous, at least as compared to Civ on the PC to date, but that's towards what CivRev is about in part -- all making for generally shorter gameplay.

That said, if you are able to continue playing after you have concluded your research -- especially if before a victor is determined -- than Fundamentalism's negative would need to be tweaked so that there is some other aspect affected that is just as costly.

I agree that it's all still hard to determine at this point, though our European peers who now have the full game probably have a better idea (darn them ).

[PosSibley]

Originally posted by DanQ
This strikes me as city specialization being even more desirable if not critical in CivRev and therefore you're not going to have as high a portion of your cities churning out military units at any one time.

Very good point, makes me rethink some of my views!

Originally posted by DanQ Yes, a %-based attack value increase would be quite strong in the later game as in your example. Yet just as immense on the science side while you'd enjoy this benefit you take the immense hit of having both your Libraries and Universities shut down. Both are outrageous, at least as compared to Civ on the PC to date, but that's towards what CivRev is about in part -- all making for generally shorter gameplay.

At first in the demo I was surprised how powerful elite Knight Armies with fundamentalism and Samurai Castle was (especially on a hill), but then I played as egypt with a Colossus, Bank, East India Trade, Trade Fair, Trading Post, Courthouse and Democracy.

I wonder how well maxed production/attack power stacks up against maxed science or gold. One thing is for certain, it will definitely depend on which civilization you choose and which you are facing.

Notably more useful for Mongolia, Germany, Arabia, and towns without anarchy penalty and especially early-game, end-game, or against enemies with no specialist defense and bonus buildings/GP/wonder at the starting age (Egypt, France, America).

Originally posted by DanQ That said, if you are able to continue playing after you have concluded your research -- especially if before a victor is determined -- than Fundamentalism's negative would need to be tweaked so that there is some other aspect affected that is just as costly.

Also you can get a little help using the Great Library, buying/threatening for tech, or exploring for Atlantis. Since it only affects your science buildings, you can still aim for gold or culture.

Originally posted by DanQ
I agree that it's all still hard to determine at this point, though our European peers who now have the full game probably have a better idea (darn them ).

To quote futurama:
"Glurmo: No food or drink allowed on the tour. You'll have to wait until you're partying with Slurms MacKenzie.
Fry: When will that be?
Glurmo: Soon enough.
Fry: That's not soon enough!"

Thanks for the attentive responses, I'll find out for myself in a few weeks or so. In the end, I'm a science lover so I'll probably be spending a lot of time avoiding fundamentalism, but i'm curious how much I should fear it.