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**Thirgaral** · April 9, 2003, 16:26

Representative Democracy and Democratic Socialism are quite similar with their relatively high production, high war weariness, and low corruption,

Democratic socialism should have low production and huge corruption...I know, because I live in Sweden..

And where´s fascism????

Seems ok besides that...but a little to many commie govs though, need all them?

**Azeem** · April 9, 2003, 18:34

Thank's for the reminder on Fascism.

BTW, you haven't seen corruption until you come down here to Southern California.

I'm a democratic socialist myself so I'm admittedly more generous to it.

So the way I make my own mods is to seperate "socialist systems" into Bolshevism, Maoism, and Democratic Socialism even though that division is sitll too general. Several of the mods I've seen think democratic socialism is a mix of the so-called "communism" (which is renamed "Bolshevism" since "communism" never truly existed) and democracy, which is not neccessarily true.

Anyway, on Fascism what sort of unique buildings/edicts should it have?

Are there any other governments that should be included?

**Thirgaral** · April 10, 2003, 09:01

BTW, you haven't seen corruption until you come down here to Southern California.

Been to Sweden??

I'm a democratic socialist myself so I'm admittedly more generous to it.

Well if you´ve lived your entire life in a SD ruled country it´s hard to still believe in it.....

Uhm...got no ideas at all for the fascism...sorry...

I´d like to see technocracy....

**Azeem** · April 10, 2003, 11:32

What's a technocracy?

**Thirgaral** · April 10, 2003, 13:05

A technocracy is a society (goverment) where the scientists dominate...the scientists (or engineeers, whatever) rule the country and the main goal for all citizen is technological advancement.
Something like that...

**Azeem** · April 14, 2003, 19:22

*continuation of the ideas list.

*Added Concept: Tourism
In the modern era, more nations are supplementing their economies with a tourist industry. Thus tourism is increasingly becoming more important in expanding economic growth.

Bonus Resources:

Scenic Site - +3 Gold; allows the construction of a "Tourist Accomodations" improvement
Ancient Ruins - +3 Gold; allows the construction of a "Museum"
Fruits - +1 Food, +1 Gold
Oasis - +2 Food, +1 Shield

Luxury Resources:

Herbs - +1 Food, +1 Gold
Lacquer - +1 Shield, +2 Gold
Tobacco - +1 Shield, +2 Gold

Improvements:

Workers' Guilds - increases shield production
Tourist Accomodations - +50% Tax and luxury output, requires a "Scenic Site" and the "Tourism" advance; costs 3 gold per turn
Museum - +1 Happiness (due to cultural pride

), +4 Culture, +50% research; costs 6 gold per turn
City Park - +1 Happiness, +1 Culture, reduces population pollution; costs 1 gold per turn
Television Station - +2 Happiness, +3 Culture, Increases Luxury Trade; costs 4 gold per turn

Wonders:
*Some of these just replace wonders already in PtW. I don't like the way PtW is still too Euro- and America-centric (if that's really a word

).

Pyramids - adds a Workers' Guilds improvement in every city
Stonehenge - all cities gain a granary (it was speculated that Stonehenge may have been used as an agricultural calendar)
Holy City - doubles effects of all Cathedrals (replaces Sistine Chapel), +5 culture per turn
House of Wisdom - doubles research of city

New Units:

Land Rover - upgrades from Cavalry
Humvee - upgrades from Land Rover

**iamjason** · April 14, 2003, 21:26

Hey, how are you thinking about implementing the 'edicts'? Just as improvements without associated graphics? That's actually not a bad idea, although it would be strange to be able to sell 'peasant conscription' or 'corporate lobbying'.

I also like the tourism ideas, though you might want to bump them up a bit. One gold really won't matter much in any but the smallest cities, early in the game. Tourism contributes a surprising amount to many modern economies.

And another thing you might want to consider for your Luxury resrouces is what I've done in my Colonization mod at http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=81893.
Tobacco, for example, adds trade bonuses but subtracts from food, because it tends to be farmed instead of corn, wheat, or whatever.

As for Technocracy, you'd probably want high science and low corrpution, with moderate trade and high war weariness. And it's too bad you can't disable religious improvements with a government type. I wonder if technocracy is meant to be democratic or sort of a meritocracy? Do you vote for the best political scientists or is the president elected by a nation SAT?

**Azeem** · April 14, 2003, 22:29

I bumped up the values for tourism a bit.

As for edicts, they are "invisible improvements", which is quite simply improvements without associated graphics.

Right now these are all merely suggestions. I'd very much like to make a mod like this. But the problem is that I don't have the right graphics programs to make the graphics and the icons.

**Krayzeenbk** · April 14, 2003, 23:44

A technocracy is a society (goverment) where the scientists dominate...the scientists (or engineeers, whatever) rule the country and the main goal for all citizen is technological advancement.

Technocrats are people involved in politics that push for rapid technological progress. This means that countries involved in rapid modernization, arms races, etc. are technocracies to a great extent. Many of the Soviet cadres are described as "technocrats," and many active American scientists describe themselves in this way.

I don't think that technocracy is really worth a government, instead it's more like a condition that a government can be in (like a small wonder maybe?). Technocracy is already pretty accurately simulated by setting your science slider as far to the right as you dare

**mrboo123** · April 15, 2003, 08:53

Originally posted by Thirgaral

Been to Sweden??

(...)

Been to Canada???

**Azeem** · April 15, 2003, 12:04

How about you two come down here to the ol' US of A and be awed by our corruption?

Anyway, what unique units should Scandanavia and Spain have?

**Thirgaral** · April 15, 2003, 12:59

About the fascism...I think it should have low waste??

Technocrats are people involved in politics that push for rapid technological progress. This means that countries involved in rapid modernization, arms races, etc. are technocracies to a great extent. Many of the Soviet cadres are described as "technocrats," and many active American scientists describe themselves in this way.

However...even though we have´t seen it in the real world, it´s possible to create a government of technocracy working something like this:

As for Technocracy, you'd probably want high science and low corrpution, with moderate trade and high war weariness. And it's too bad you can't disable religious improvements with a government type. I wonder if technocracy is meant to be democratic or sort of a meritocracy? Do you vote for the best political scientists or is the president elected by a nation SAT?

And replying to that: it´s a meritocracy...i think...
the other question´s answer could vary as much as between the democracies of today...but I believe that option nr 2 would be more usual??

Been to Canada???

No.

How about you two come down here to the ol' US of A and be awed by our corruption?

Sure, if you come up here too.

Anyway, what unique units should Scandanavia and Spain have?

Scandinavia should have the modern unit "beautiful woman" which makes the opponents troops switch side

Spain could have the "Columbus boat"...simply an explorer on sea...
and the "Colonist"...used to make colonies in some more efficient way...

**Krayzeenbk** · April 15, 2003, 14:47

However...even though we have´t seen it in the real world, it´s possible to create a government of technocracy working something like this

We've seen technocracies, USSR and USA come to mind. In fact the USSR was the technocracy of technocracies, it was a theocracy of technology

So yeah, a technocracy would be a meritocracy but both terms refer to conditions that are not necessarily worth a government but maybe a small wonder.

**Azeem** · April 15, 2003, 21:38

*More added.

New Techs:
*Added Concept: Religion
Various religions can be "researched", but are not necessary to advance to the next age. You only need to have "Polytheism" researched for the Ancient Age and "Monotheism" for the modern age. These "religion" advances are to add more character to your civilization and some bonuses.

All religions either require the "Monotheism" or "Polytheism" techs as prerequisite. Each religion will give you something unique. Each religion has a research path, so if you want to research a particular religion and gain their benefits, it's better to choose one first and follow its research path.

Monotheism
Research path: Monotheism -> Judaism -> Christianity -> Roman Catholicism -> Protestant Reformation
or Christianity -> Eastern Orthodox -> Coptic Church

-OR-

Monotheism -> Judaism -> Islam -> Muslim Rituals -> Sunni -> Shi'a -> Shariah -> Sufi -> Sufi Literature

Polytheism
Research path: Polytheism -> Vedic Traditions -> Caste System -> Hinduism -> Upanishads -> Hindu Literature -> Hindu Philosophy

or Hinduism -> Buddhism -> Theravada -> Buddhist Rituals -> Mahayana -> Vajrayana

-OR-
Polytheism -> Animism -> Shamanism

-OR-
Polytheism -> Temple Cults -> Elaborate Temple Rituals -> Popular Religion (such as the widely accepted polytheistic religions of China and ancient Egypt)

-OR-
Polytheism -> Ancestor Worship -> Filial Piety -> Confucianism -> Daoism -> Feng Shui

*Some of these religions have really long research lines, but each have their own unique benefits to balance things out.

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