WWI-scenario

[Aidun]

I'm working on a WWI-scenario, but I'm facing some problems:

Key to WWI were the two blocks of allied countries:
- The Triple Entente of England, France and Russia, cooperating with Belgium, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and Albania and nationalist groops in the Middle-East. in 1917 Russia stepped out of the alliance and the USA jointed it.
- Austrian-German Alliance with Austria-Hungary and Germany, cooperating with the Ottoman Empire.

How can I set these alliances in the scenario? I'm using the Civ3PTW-editor.

Secondary: How can I make the whole map visible to every player? I can remember there was an option in Civ2 if you played in cheatmode for that.

Third: I've set in the editor that the scenario plays in the modern era. I've also set that the civs gain all techs of the era's before the modern era and gain some techs of the modern era. This is different for all civs. For instance: at the beginning of the war, England could already build tanks and Germany could not. When I load the scenario in Civ3 PTW nothing of these techs. I'm just at the beginning of the modern Era.
Can anyone explain this and help me?

FIRST PREVIEW PLEASE MAKE ANY COMMENTS, SO I CAN LEARN AN MAKE IT EVEN BETTER! (Even comments such as this is totally rubbish are welcome).

Tnx

[Stormbringer]

I believe it is impossible to set alliances at this point, so maybe a scenario set a few years before would be appropriate, and then just let the alliances form different every time. Also, I don't really understand the tech problem, could you describe it with examples maybe?

[Aidun]

Originally posted by Stormbringer
I believe it is impossible to set alliances at this point, so maybe a scenario set a few years before would be appropriate, and then just let the alliances form different every time. Also, I don't really understand the tech problem, could you describe it with examples maybe?

The impossibility of setting alliances will make the scenario less historically true, but perhaps that's just the challenge. I liked but the idea to have this scenario playable just as the WWI was.

About techs: I have set for a random civ, for instance England, in the player properties window that the initial era is the Industrial Age. I have also set, in the player properties window, the free techs the civ gains at the beginning of the game. These are all the techs of the eras before and some of the Industial age.
When I then start the scenario I don't gain the techs of the Industrial age that I have set in the player properties window.
It is essential for the game to set these techs. Otherwise all nations have the same developing level, which was defenitely not in 1914. The Ottoman Empire was not yet industialized while Germany and England and Belgium were most industialized of Europe.

[trevor]

Aidun, there's a separate section for techs in the player properties window. By the way, the easier thing to do would be to make the different alliances just one country. This may sound unbalanced, but if you give the cities of the Central Powers a "uber-resource" that gives a shield bonus it would work.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by trevor
Aidun, there's a separate section for techs in the player properties window. By the way, the easier thing to do would be to make the different alliances just one country. This may sound unbalanced, but if you give the cities of the Central Powers a "uber-resource" that gives a shield bonus it would work.

Trevor, I did use the section for the techs in the player properties window, but it may be something in the rules.

I understand about making the alliances the countries. It is a good option, but I think then I'd prefer to keep the countries seperate of each other to keep them to have their own foreign-policy. I only wanted to make the scenario begin just like WWI began. The developing of the war is up to the players. Seperate countries can also let the scenario be played on different difficulty levels: It is much more difficult to play Belgium, the Netherlands or Serbia than England, France, Germany, Austria-Hungary or Russia.
What do you mean with the uber-resource?
Thanks anyway.

By the way, do you know how to make the map visible to all players?

I'll upload the scenario in this thread when ready.

[TacticalGrace]

I wasn't aware that England could already build tanks at the beginning of WWI.

[H Tower]

i didn't think anyone could build tanks at the begining of WWI.

Heck most of the French tanks at the end of the war were captured German models, and IIRC, they weren't introduced until 1917

[Aidun]

England could build tanks at the beginning of the war. It was their secret project. It was told to the workmen that they were building tanks, for water, oil etc. for Russia. England was indeed exporting tanks to Russia just before 1914. At the beginning of the war it became clear that the story told to the workmen was a lie: they had build warmachines instead of tanks. This was the origin of the word tank.

[GePap]

Aidun:

Great Britian could not build tanks in 1914: tanks as a project was begun as a response to the trench stalemate that developed by 1915. As such, teh ability to build them should not be one that Great Britian posesses.

As for H-towers french tank comment: France also built tanks late, though they ahd htier own: it was Germany that did not come up with indegenous tank designs until very late.

As for the issue of alience and tech levels:

All civs should start in the industriuos age: after all, the Turks had all the 'tech' for railroads and so forth. The dfifference in development was not one of knowledge but one of infrastructure and wealth. The best way to show the Ottoman backwardness is not to deny them knowledge they had, but to give them a weak infrastructure: that means few factories, banks, coal plants, limited rail system, and so forth, while the rich states have many factories, coal plants, banks, minor woners such a wall street and iron works and so forth. A turk player might want to build imrpovements, but at the expense of military units.

As for allience building: in theory, a multiplayer game can be saved and then played as single player, and vice versa. So, make the scenerio, then confgure the players so that you can have a multiplayer game and have fellow players make all the diplomatic arrangements you whish to have. Of course, this might limit your ability in terms of number of civs, down to 8. I don't know if it is possibe to try to work things out with more then that many civs with this method.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by GePap
Great Britian could not build tanks in 1914: tanks as a project was begun as a response to the trench stalemate that developed by 1915. As such, teh ability to build them should not be one that Great Britian posesses.

As for H-towers french tank comment: France also built tanks late, though they ahd htier own: it was Germany that did not come up with indegenous tank designs until very late.

GePap,

Thank you for correcting me. I remembered some history lessons at highschool of about two years ago. My teacher once told me the story I posted in my last post. I thought England had tanks already in 1914, the situation you described above is much more realistic than the development of the tank as a result of a weaponmatch (I don't know if this is well translated) between England an Germany. I'll fit this in my scenario.

Originally posted by GePap
All civs should start in the industriuos age: after all, the Turks had all the 'tech' for railroads and so forth. The dfifference in development was not one of knowledge but one of infrastructure and wealth. The best way to show the Ottoman backwardness is not to deny them knowledge they had, but to give them a weak infrastructure: that means few factories, banks, coal plants, limited rail system, and so forth, while the rich states have many factories, coal plants, banks, minor woners such a wall street and iron works and so forth. A turk player might want to build imrpovements, but at the expense of military units.

I was already using the principle of less infrastructure, factories, railroads, banks (good idea!). I thought though there was a lower level of developing in some countries. It is but true that the knowledge had been spread from England to Russia and was known everywhere in Europe. The Ottoman Empire seemed to me a bit medieval like and not realy industrialized because of the enormous religious power that was. Again you're right.
Thank you again.

Originally posted by GePap
As for allience building: in theory, a multiplayer game can be saved and then played as single player, and vice versa. So, make the scenerio, then confgure the players so that you can have a multiplayer game and have fellow players make all the diplomatic arrangements you whish to have. Of course, this might limit your ability in terms of number of civs, down to 8. I don't know if it is possibe to try to work things out with more then that many civs with this method.

Thank you very much for this. It is great to read that the alliances are possible. 8 Players though is a very low number. Compare: I've set 16 civs now (Scandinavia is split in Denmark-Norway and Sweden optionally)! Six of the 16 are but neutral. Combining Bulgaria-Romania-Albania (one civ), Switzerland, Spain, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark-Norway in one neutral civ could reduce the number to 10. Combining Belgium and Greece can result in 9. I'm bothering about the last combination. Perhaps Germany and Austria, France and England, but they are very different from each other, or Russia and initiator Serbia. If you have and idea, please let me know. I think though I will create the scenario in two versions: for multiplayer with 8 civs and for single player with 15 or 16 civs. Both will be enjoyable then and play different.

Thanks very much again GePap.

I keep posting this question: Do you know how to make all players see the whole map explored? I couldn't find the option in the rules window.

[Kal-el]

If you set it up as a hot seat game you when you go about setting up the alliances you can also share maps with everybody.

[Aidun]

Tnx very much Kal-el. I didn't know. I'm playing PTW for just one week now.

I'll post as soon as ready.

- Aidun

[H Tower]

which might actually be a couple months down the line if you do super detailed work on it...

[Aidun]

I'm first posting a preview, H-tower, so that anyone who has any comments can post them here. But I must say geographically I'm finished. Russia is quite difficult it is too large for the map, though I think that the larger the map, the more difficult and the more callenging it will be. Russia has many cities, but I'm out of 512 cities. If there are any ideas. To give Russia more cities, let me know after I've posted the first preview. I'll explain more about the map under here. KEEP CHECKING THIS THREAD!
I've used Norman Langerak's gaiant map of Europe (256x256 tiles), so a strong CPU shall be needed. I don't think this will be a problem but if there are requests I'm always able to create a smaller one.

[Aidun]

Here it is. Enjoy the first look. I is however not yet ready, but 'm working on it. Please submit some comments.

About the cities: I havent placed the most important cities of Europe of 1914, burt the most relevant cities. This means that the cities I've places are reletively important even when they are not the most important cities of the continent. Some nations just didn't had any important cities, like Bulgaria, Albania and Romania, but to include them Ive then chosen their most important cities.