Final Solution (Govermants thread)

[HazieDaVampire]

Anybody have any ideas how to simulate the "Final Solution" in a Nazi government?

I was thinking along the lines of a Decrease of 1pop count every so often in all of your citys. But thats impossible!

I know some people don't like that Idea of a nazi government type, but i'd just like one!

[Fosse]

Create a concentration camp improvment... -2 happiness, -2 culture, plus one production, zero upkeep. Make it available to Nazi government only.

So you're basically using a modified factory to get slower growth (from having to use more entertainers) a slowdown in culture buildup and increased production for your war machine.

[HazieDaVampire]

nice idea!

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by Fosse
Create a concentration camp improvment... -2 happiness, -2 culture, plus one production, zero upkeep. Make it available to Nazi government only.

So you're basically using a modified factory to get slower growth (from having to use more entertainers) a slowdown in culture buildup and increased production for your war machine.

Morbidly enough, you could even use the factory graphic for it... just wouldn't require any coal to fuel it.

[Stuie]

Change "Assimilation Chance" to 0% for Fascism. Then you, as the player, are forced to choose between keeping a large foreign population in conquered cities or finding some other "solution".

[Fosse]

You could use a factory graphic for a concentration camp... but a modified barraks might be more grimly appropriate... reflecting the people.

0% assimilation... ouch. But it is pretty reasonable.

[Optimizer]

You have got forced labor - that is a good simulation.

[Patroklos]

I have been thinking about this, as it is a concept I wanted to fit into the WWII scenario I am working on. It is very morbid, but like I have said many a time CivIII is a simulation/strategy game, and I intend to make it as real as possible.

Concentration camps were a cheap sourse of labor, but the cost of transporting and maitaining the secrecy of the project negated much of their "benefit." Of course, if we were to implement it into the game as such (with mimal production benefit), who would build it. I doubt there are many Nazi CivIII players who would build it for fun, at least I hope there aren't. so with that in mind I agree with what others said, that it should provide a production bonus in exchange for unhappiness.

I was thinking of adding something else to the mix as well. Jews in WWII lived in concentrations in various places, and I wanted to restrict the improvement to these places. I was thinking of creating a "resource" (sounds so bad) for jews, represented by the star of david symbol, that would be in places like Poland and such on a European map. This would one, require 1.) that the facist government maintain a transport root to it's capital to build the improvments 2.) not sure if it is possible to require an improvemnet to have the resource in a city radiyus to build, but it would restrict the locations where concentration camps could be built 3.) in a multiplayer game, where people usually get into their scenario roles, it could be interesting to try and "libertate" camps by denying the enemy these resourse squares.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

True, it is VERY MORBID but, guess what, so was history if you look closely enough . Your idea for a Jewish "resource" is not that different from the idea I had for a "Slave Labour System" small wonder. Can't do it yet, do to limitations in the editor, but basically it created a slave market in every city (production 2, culture -2, maintainence 2) on the same continent. The thing is that it required the "resource" of "Indigenous Populations"-which was supposed to reflect the use of African slaves in Europe and the US. I had also hoped to make this Sm. Wonder Obsolete with the discovery of "Emancipation", a non-prerequisite tech of the late middle ages (Available after democracy). I also had considered the idea of a forced labour camp "improvement" which was available only to fascist and communist governments. I don't include these things to upset people, but just so it can be a true reflection of the darker side of human history, if thats what you want! Things like the Crusades, Inquisition, Secret Police, Dictatorships, Human Sacrifice, martial law and the like all existed, so why not try and reflect them in the game, and make it a little less PC (Though I have to say that with pop-rush, city razing, forced labour and assimilation, this game is a LOT LESS PC than Civ2 or Civ1!!!)
Actually, the main problem I have is finding a way to create some of these things in the game. For instance, I wanted the Inquisition Small Wonder to increase happiness, but reduce science output! Can't do that, though . Just hope the editor continues to evolve!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[HazieDaVampire]

I'd build it, but only if i was in one of my role playing moods! like pretending to be some Emporer!

[Patroklos]

Hey all,

One of the things that I decided to add to my mod was that a concentration camp will allow you to build slave labor, or workers that you can build that require no population cost and few shields. To offset this they will have a high maintenance cost, to reflect the money needed to build the security apparatus to keep them in line.

As far as graphics go, I was just going to modify the original industrial age worker for the purpose, but if anyone knows of an existing unit please let me know so I can save the time for the infinate other mod related things I have too do. Also, the slave labor unit that I would use in the WWII mod would have the star of david the Jews were forces to wear (it would be a yellow dot in the game, but people I hope will know what is), while the soviets would just have the normal unit. Anyone take offense to this, or is realism everyone's top priority like myself?

[HazieDaVampire]

you could use a normal worker animation, and add the Star of David like a little symbol on the bottom left! or Bottom right!

[Patroklos]

Well, since I am putting symbols like that on all my WWII units, and I think I have almost 30 now (Things are getting out of hand ), I guess it wouldn't be too much work to do as you suggest.

[Tattila the Hun]

"This source of jews has been exhausted"
"We have found a new source of jews"

Ack....

Increased shield production? How do you make tanks with human fat? Candles and soap, and book covers yes. Maybe the cover for the gubelwagen's seats? Instead of tiger skin, ****** skin? (I don't use that word, but if someone were to make gubels with those parametrics, they propably would. And it rhymes. Actually it rhymes with tigger, but tigger has more bounce.)

"Morbidly enough, you could even use the factory graphic for it... just wouldn't require any coal to fuel it."

As far as I know, human body isn't combustible on its own, it needs fuel. Except for spontaneus combustion and pyrokinetics.

It is true, afaik, that even when commanders in front were in desperate need of new troops (if there were any) at the final months of the Third Reich, transportations to Auchwitz-Birkenau, Bergen Belsen and others, still not liberated Kz-camps, took the priority over troops.

[Patroklos]

workers in cocentration camps (not all were Jews earmarked for extermination) were used as slave labor all over Germany, from farms around the camps themselves to shipyards in Keil. They were extremely important to Germany's war effort.

The exhaustion rate for the "Jew" resource would be high, for obvious reasons.