RFC: New Bldg/Wonder - Defining Moment (Allows a Civ to Change a Characteristic)

[Backpack]

This is a request for comment on a new Building/Small Wonder/Wonder. This would require a Code change from Firaxis, so even if everyone loves the idea, don't expect it until the next XP.

I have read some comments from various people that Civ Characteristics are not realistic and that circumstances cause a Civ to grow and change and excel in different areas. Civ3 impliments this by giving each Civ various characteristics or traits - Mil, Ind, Com, Rel, Sci, Exp. In the real world, a leopard may not change it's spots but a civilization can.

WWII caused many 'Defining Moments' throughout the world. Japan traded an expansionist trait for a commercial one. The US effectively traded an expansionist trait for a commercial one. Germany can also be said to have moved from an expansionist militaristic to a commercial scientific stance (though this took 50+ years). In fact, the usefulness of expansionism disappears in a modern 'static' world and WWII allowed many real world countries to shed previous traits and take on new ones.

Many times throughout history, civilizations have gone through Defining Moments and reDefining Moments. They have been reborn again and again with a different perspective and have developed the abilities required to exploit these new perspectives.

The US (northern states) was reborn after the American Civil War as an industrious (or at least an industrial) society, reborn after/through WWII, and again in the latter 20 years of the 20th Cent as a commercial scientific society.

Game Play:
I am seeing a simple building available from an early point (Fuedalism?). This building which I am calling "Defining Moment" will be HORRIBLY (10,000 - 20,000 Shields) Expensive to build, and may not be rushed except through the use of a Great Leader (GL). The completion of this building in any city gives a civ a pop-up, where they may select which trait they wish to give up, and which trait they wish to gain. Immediatly (or the next turn) the civ is then able to enjoy the benefits of the new trait, and they lose the benefits of the old trait - Industrious Workers Kick in or Go away, Building cost Changes, Units become available or are taken away from building options (Optional: trait specific units can be kept or be killed off), A new Golden Age check is performed and can be triggered (Optional: may allow a second golden Age but that may be too powerful for buildings)

Game Mechanics:
I prefer this as a building, so that each civ can be reborn many times. If implimented as a building then the ability to cash rush needs to be removed or added as a flaggable option for buildings. If implimented as a Small Wonder then this point is mute.
If implimented as a Small Wonder this building should not be flagged with a civ trait, but should allow a second Golden Age.
Also needed is a place in the user interface where we can look up the current traits of the other players/AI's just as we now look up the current government. This may even warrant a pop-up ala "So and So has completed a Defining Moment. They are now a Mil and Sci society"

The AI obviously needs to be taught how to use this improvement. Some possible first-cut triggers...
Is the map 95% revealed? - build and ditch Exp.
Are we 95% RailRoaded? - Build and ditch Ind.
Are we more than 8 techs behind the leader? - Build to gain Sci
Are we culturally lagging? - Add Religious or Sci
Is our best tech rate poor AND our cash flow poor? - Add Commercial

Additionaly, the AI needs to not build this the conventional way, It should never be in the build que unless one of the above conditions exists to drive the need for a change, and preferable, It should only perform this check when it has a leader available to rush the improvement.

Lastly, coding for the two pop-up boxes needs to be added. the first box - What Trait do you want to lose, the second what trait do you want to gain?. I am looking for an implimentation like this because I am working on a Mod to rebalance the Civs by granting each Civ 3 Traits instead of 2. (this gives 20 unique trait sets instead of 16). By using two seperate pop-ups, this leaves the game compatible with mods where a civ has 1-5 traits, regardless of the fact that it shipped originally with 2 per Civ.
The second pop-up should also be coded so that it does not allow the addition of the trait just dropped. You should not be able to build this just for the culture and or 2nd Golden Age trigger and this also keeps the AI from getting caught in a decision loop to drop a trait, then adding it back in.


Whew, That's alot....

To wrap-up, and to wrap-up in a small package, These changes and the addition of this building can add a whole new level of 'Fluidity' to the game for all players.

Thoughts?

[Backpack]

Hmmm,
Here's another thought. This could all be implimented without all the extra coding by simply making it a function of a Great leader. Add another action to the Great Leader, where now it can Build Army, Complete Construction, or Change Civ Characteristic.

Thoughts?

Kevin

[AroSch]

Changing Civ Characteristic during the game sounds great to me.

But the triggers should be possible to work in ancient times too, I think. In most of my games (SP) my Civ never reached modern area.

Beside adding the function to the the normal Great Leader it could be a good idea to add some "Cultural Leader": a new unit, wich make it possible to change the Civ Characteristic and some cultural buildings/wonders. (I also like the idea of having a naval leader for building fleets and naval academy etc. - but this is an other story.)

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

On a related topic, I've always felt that the existing GL system favours warmongers over builders. In order to overcome this bias, I once suggested a broader system of Great Leadership.
The general principles were:

1) At most 1 great leader/civ/era. (Though 1 GL of each type was acceptable)

2) No new GL of that type until you'd used the existing one!

3) Certain Small/Great Wonders could increase the chance of GL appearance.

Some GL types I'd considered, and their possible effects were:

1) Great Artisan/Engineer; Available with Construction? When "sacrificed", allows rush building of any improvement/wonder on same continent OR increases production in that city by +25% for 10 turns. Appearance chance tied to # of shields in city.

2) Great Artist; Available with Literature or Philosophy? When "sacrificed", gives your civilization a "Golden Age", even if your civ has already recieved one OR Increases the total Culture in that city by +25% for 10 turns. Appearance chance tied to Culture level of city

3) Great Scientist; Available with Scientific Method? When sacrificed, automatically gives your civilization the advance you are currently studying OR increases the science rate in that city by 25% for 10 turns. Appearance tied to science rate of city.

4) Great Religious Leader; Available with Monotheism. When sacrificed, gives all religious improvements a +50% increase in happiness for 10 turns OR makes that city resistant to culture flip or propaganda for 10 turns. Appearance chance tied to # of religious improvements in city.

5) Great Statesman; Available always. When sacrificed, doubles effects of all diplomatic agreements for 10 turns OR, reduces corruption Civ wide by 50% for 10 turns. Appearance tied to Palace and/or gaining government-related technologies.

6) Great Business Leader; Available with Economics (or Currency??). When sacrificed, increases effects of all commercial improvements/wonders by +25% for 10 turns OR, gives +1 commerce in every square of that cities radius. Appearance tied to # of commercial improvements.

Well, there you have it, what do you guys think-is it a good idea and, more importantly, do you think they could do it in Civ3?

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.