"Must Read" threads - NOW in the DIRECTORY (http://apolyton.net/dir)

[Arrian]

Cool, I won something!

-Arrian, who has forsaken the weakness of the "light"

[Theseus]

And your very own movie poster... lucky you.

[Theseus]

I cleaned this up a little, including moving the reference to "Winning Early" to the top, and making it a link.

Hopefully time can be saved by pointing a lot of the newer players (new name: "Irrigators" ) here.

[Arrian]

A suggested addition to "game mechanics" - remember this one?

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1385647&t=8210#post1385647

-Arrian

[Harovan]

I suggest to add Aesons article about Scouting, which I consider to be very useful especially for MP.
Dominaes Dirty tricks would also be worthy to add.

EDIT: Since Theseus is lazy adding links to the first post, I use this post to keep links to my favorite additional threads in a topped thread.

[Dominae]

Hopefully helpful suggestions

Theseus, I've never properly commended you on creating this thread and getting the admins to "top" it. It's just great to point newer players here, and then wait for their "holy crap!" reaction when they realise so much has been said about Civ3.

But I've noticed (and others have commented) that this thread is becoming a little dated. I'm sure it takes a lot of work to keep the thing in top shape, and Civ is supposed to be fun, damnit, not work! Yet tonight I've had nothing to do and a bottle of wine, so I figured I'd try to help out.

Enough niceties. I'm going to list the currently available threads and comment on them. I've based my comments on how a newer player would react to these threads, as well as how good a reference these links are for the rest of us.

Some general points:

1. There needs to be a re-structuring of the categories. I suggest adding another category based around the AU efforts. This is something that is particular to 'Poly and therefore should be noticed (plus the AU discussion are usually quite good).

2. X's indicate that I think this thread should be removed; +'s indicate that this thread should stay, I'm just throwing out some minor comments; and the ?'s are borderline cases. These are all IMHO, of course. Any thread that I did not mention is definitely worth keeping.

3. I've proposed a list of newer threads that the list should contain (as Sir Ralph is doing in the post above).

4. The names of the threads are not always good names for the links (consider the ' Why granaries don't work' thread). Thus it would be useful to have a thread description seperate from the actual original thread title.

Ok, on to it:

----

Picking the right Civ! ?

This is more of a debate than actual usable information, and is also quite dated. However, there are very few threads that deal with all the civs at once.


Civs from easiest to hardest X

IMO, a very confusing thread with very little strategy-talk. The title seems to indicate that this thread is perfect for beginners, but I'm not so sure.


Most fun militaristic style civs X

This is essentially an opinion poll, and is therefore out of place in a "must read" thread.


Rating Special Units X

Largely a debate that goes nowhere. Everyone gives ratings on their favorite units, and that's about it.


Wonder Guide ?

The essay is okay, if heavily dated. Also, this thread does not belong in the 'game mechanics' section (perhaps in the 'strategy in specific'?).


Why you do NOT want to mine shielded grasslands! ?

The discussion is interesting, but goes nowhere, making it difficult to classify as a "must read". Also, this thread does not belong in the 'game mechanics' section.

Positive and Disturbing Trends (re war weariness) X

Too confusing and dated.


Compiled Firaxian Comments on Undocumented Game Features X

Broken link.


Most annoying civs to play against... X

Personal opinion, not strategy.


10 steps for a successful builder strategy X

Confusing discussion.


Triple Threat - The Joys of Being a Bloodthirsty Barbarian +

Best candidate for an edited title (what is this about?). Also, this belongs in the 'Civs and UUs' section.


Ultimate Power ?

I'm not trying to knock Arrian, but I cannot understand why this is a "must read". Perhaps a new 'miscellaneous' section could be created.


The Settler/Defender "Factory" X

Dated.


Super Expansion Strategy: How to Build 100+ cities By 10AD X

Also dated.


So very cold (of the map generator) +

This belongs in the miscellaneous category. Beginning to get quite dated. Most important of all, the screenshots are missing. Too bad...


Timeline for the ultra-early Archer rush +

This is a good thread with a misleading title. "Ultra-early" is way before 6+ Archers and Spearmen escorts...but that's just me.


Fun and Games with Modern Armor X

Not really any strategy here.


The key to AI greatness +

Belongs in the 'game mechanics' category.


The Best Threadjack of the Best X

Nice to see the birthplace of AU, but not really a thread for newer players (highly confusing). The official AU threads are far better.

----

Here's my list of newer threads that I think belong here. Yes, two of them are mine! The OCC one is definitely debatable, but I originally wrote as a reference for newer players, so I think it has a place here.

Apolyton University
AU: A MOD for the curiculum
Apolyton University Mod (PTW version)
Dirty tricks
OCC games for fun and, well...FUN!
Why granaries don't work
How science works and why there IS a 4 turn cap

----

Whew! That's it. Hope you do not take offense at me offering my help in tidying this little treasure up. Let's keep this resource going!


Dominae

[Theseus]

Dominae, thanks for the compliment and comments.

I, too, have been pondering what to do with this thread. Before getting to any major changes, though, a couple of comments:

* The selection of the threads was not entirely mine. When I first posted the list I was asked two things: 1) to turn the list into proper, named links (what a pain iin the butt), and to include all of the threads that were then in the Strategy section (not the Strat Forum).

I thought of descriptions in addition to titles, but it was more than enough work the way I did it. I also came up with the current categories partially to address the threads I had to include.

* You are totally right, the threads are becoming a little dated. I'm not sure what to include of late, however... clearly a whole AU section, and some if not all of the threads you mention. What probably needs to be added as well is an MP section... Sperricles review, perhaps?... but I am no MP expert.

I am all for making this thread an even better guide, and am happy to administer it, but I probably need a LOT of group help to figure out exactly what needs to get done, and to complete many of the time-intensive tasks required.

On top of THAT, what's this recent nonsense that CivFanatics is outpacing 'poly? What are we gonna do about that??!!

[Dominae]

When I first posted the list I was asked two things: 1) to turn the list into proper, named links (what a pain iin the butt)

First off, I'm willing to help in any way I can. What is certainly a monumental task for one person will surely be a cinch for two or three. I volunteer to name the links and place them into appropriate categories, since you do not seem to like doing that (my mom is a librarian; categorization runs in the family!).

You are totally right, the threads are becoming a little dated. I'm not sure what to include of late, however... clearly a whole AU section, and some if not all of the threads you mention.

All we need is a couple of people to nominate some particularly good threads that belong in the "must read" category. The same or different people could review the current threads (as I did) and vote on their removal. I'm not speaking for him, but Sir Ralph appeared willing to help out (see a couple of posts above).

What probably needs to be added as well is an MP section... Sperricles review, perhaps?... but I am no MP expert.

Me neither. But the MP section is still quite young and I have not seen anything "must read" there yet. Let's give it some time.

I am all for making this thread an even better guide, and am happy to administer it, but I probably need a LOT of group help to figure out exactly what needs to get done, and to complete many of the time-intensive tasks required.

Like I said, I volunteer.

On top of THAT, what's this recent nonsense that CivFanatics is outpacing 'poly? What are we gonna do about that??!!

Option 1: Gather all the 'Poly-faithful computer experts to launch a massive denial of service attack on CivFanatics. Where will their community turn but to us then?

Option 2: Challenge the suckers to a Democracy Game to end all democracy games. We can take 'em.


Dominae

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Theseus
... what's this recent nonsense that CivFanatics is outpacing 'poly? What are we gonna do about that??!!

Measured how, by thread views or by postings? Bah, meaningless statistics with no regard to (purely subjective ) Quality!

The cadre here are mostly a different sort than those at CFC. I make an occasional visit there, and their Multi-Unit graphics forum is quite interesting.

OTOH, I just can't relate to much else in their forums, and most people that are there probably don't relate much to what's here.

[BRC]

I like option #2.

Back to the discussion at hand. I think that Arrian's thread with the Early Leader should be posted up here. I know that Dom and him played it through pretty far. (Hey, weren't you supposed to play that too, Theseus!)

It's a good example of getting the FP up and running early, and also the payoff that the Pyramids can net you.

[Arrian]

Dominae (and BRC),

I agree that "Ultimate Power" isn't really a "must read" type of thread. I think "A Strategic Choice" (the early leader thread) is much more appropriate.

By the way, what about the Palace+Forbidden Palace Placement thread?

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Arrian, the Palace+FP thread should definitely be included. I didn't, however, manage to find it in my search of the best threads (search by views and replies...not the best indicator but I looked pretty far down in the list).

The UP thread is a fine read and everyone should know what we mean we we refer to 'ultimate power', but this does not requires reading the thread itself (I'm not sure why I'm saying this, you agree with me already, but anyway).

Any other threads you can think of that belong on the list?


Dominae

[Arrian]

Found it. It's a pain to find. You have to search thread titles for "FP+Palace" all together, no spacing. Took me three tries before I remembered that.

Link:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59349&highlight=FPPalace

-Arrian

[Theseus]

OK, give me a day or two to think of the workplan...

Off the top of my head, we need to do the following:

* Revisit the existing threads for inclusion / update versus exclusion (we haven't spent nearly enough time on the new civs)

* Nominate newer threads for inclusion

* Develop a separate AU overview thread, and get it topped (should'a done that long ago), and maybe highlighted even more... I like to think AU has become one of the best Civ3 / 'poly things around, and think about how much less it is highlighted than GOTM on CFC

* Invite some MP players in... I'm just starting to really follow it, and, again, Sperricles comes to mind. Also, what is up with the fact that many of us Strat Forum regulars are in the PTW PBEM, and there has been almost no discussion here, in the abstract at least?

* Start a Civ3 monthly award or HoF or whatever... the Off-Topic thing actually burns my -ss

* Develop a 'poly marketing campaign, including banner ads (but no pop-ups ), targeted PR coverage, spots on Jay Leno, something in Times Square... oh, wait...

Sorry for mixing to-do's with commentary.

But seriously, I'm all for improving this thread, as well as organizing ourselves a bit better (calling Trip and nye...).

[Dominae]

Now we're talking!

Just a quick comment: concerning MP, I think a lot of the Strat regulars are involved in PBEM games mostly (not internet games), so our PTW MP experience is quite meager (I've myself have played a handful of net games). So I understand why there's not more material being posted. That said, we should work on getting Franses (1vs1 league) and Sperricles (avid MP player and poster) to come to this neck of the woods. Funny how some people never venture too far from home...


Dominae