1.29f Editor : Comments, Problems, Feedback

[Jon Shafer]

I'm not sure if anyone but Firaxis can help me on this one, but I figure I might as well ask anyways, you never know what you'll find out.

I'm working on a Civil War scenario, and I've run into a big problem. The scenario doesn't want to load the two civs correctly. It always defaults to the Union side when both civs should be playable, except your opponent is listed on the right as the Confederates, but you have no choice of which civ to play... it always defaults to the North and I can't change it. Another problem is that either side can build any unit (even if it's a UU you shouldn't have... all Union cities were producing "Confederate Raiders", for some reason, even though I had specifically allowed only the South to use them), and the whole thing is messed up. I tried making it so that only the Confederates are playable, and you get the Southern cities and the name "Confederate States of America", but all your cities are blue instead of grey, and your leader is "President Lincoln of the Confederates"... I'm thoroughly confused, and I've tried every combo of scenario and player settings, and the thing is still messed up. I think all these problems are related, but I can't be sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Edit]Okay, I just found out that all of my 60 Union cities got deleted also somehow.

Okay, after more troubleshooting I now have the choice of picking either the Union or the Confederates like normal. However, I still have the problem of when I play the South their color is blue instead of grey.
I think the problem now has to do with player 1 defaulting to the human, and under player properties, the color, treasury and name are set to what the Union should be. How can I get around this?[/Edit]

[Jon Shafer]

Here's the current version.
(Thanks to Markos for renaming and moving, btw.)

Don't try to go to the city screen, otherwise the game will crash because I don't have all of the graphics ready. The true problem is in the set-up anyways. After trying the Union, go to scenario properties, and make sure the Confederates are the only side playable. Then try running it. It's even weirder.

[smellymummy]

when in the editor, and your zoomed out, seems to take very long for the screen to refresh as I move around the map..

[Level]

Trip did you forget to attach something?

[Jon Shafer]

Yep.
I wish there was a way to edit to add an attachment later on, but I suppose that doesn't exist. I had the problem solved by Dan anyways, so consider it a problem no more.

[Steve Clark]

It is amazing that someone would even attempt to make a complex scenario with an advanced map editor. Well, good luck anyway.

[Steve Clark]

Before I'm accused of being a troll, let me present you with the events.txt file from one of the better Civ2 Civil War scenarios (from one of the best scenario designers ever, Capt. Nemo)...

;
; Events text for CW1861 Civil War Scenario
; By Captain Nemo 10/20/1998
;
;

@BEGINEVENTS

@IF
NOSCHISM
DEFENDER=anybody
@THEN

@ENDIF

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=Union
talkertype=humanorcomputer
listener=Confederates
listenertype=humanorcomputer
@THEN

@ENDIF

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=Confederates
talkertype=humanorcomputer
listener=Union
listenertype=humanorcomputer
@THEN

@ENDIF

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=French
talkertype=humanorcomputer
listener=English
listenertype=humanorcomputer
@THEN

@ENDIF

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=English
talkertype=humanorcomputer
listener=French
listenertype=humanorcomputer
@THEN

@ENDIF


@IF
TURN
turn=1
@THEN
TEXT
^^Riots in Baltimore
^^April 19, 1861
^Southern sympathizers attack the 6th Massachussetts regiment as it passes
through the streets of Baltimore on the way to Washington.
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Militia
veteran=no
homecity=Baltimore
locations
72,26
endlocations

@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=1
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Militia
veteran=no
homecity=Baltimore
locations
72,26
endlocations
@ENDIF


@IF
TURN
turn=1
@THEN
TEXT
^^The Nation divided!
^As the winds of war blow over the Nation, every citizen has to choose his
side. Most of the Army Officers, of Southern root, head home to defend their
States. The fleet commanded and manned by Northern sailors stays loyal to
the Federal cause.
ENDTEXT

@ENDIF


@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=US Fort
attacker=Confederates
defender=Union
@THEN
justonce
TEXT
^^FORT SUMTER TAKEN!
^Rebel batteries around Charleston Harbor open fire on the Federal garrison
of Ft. Sumter forcing them to surrender. In response President Lincoln
calls for 75,000 volunteers to "still the insurrection in South Carolina".
The Civil War has begun...
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=2
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=CS Fort
veteran=yes
homecity=Charleston
locations
75,71
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Slaves
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
TEXT
^Federal troops free the slaves they encounter as they march
through the South. Freed slaves respond by enlisting in newly
formed "Colored Regiments" of the Federal Army.
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Black Regiment
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
84,12
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Ram
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TEXT
^^RAM CSS ATLANTA DESTROYED IN BATTLE WITH FEDERAL VESSELS
^The Confederate Rams seemed invincible when the CSS Virginia first was seen
at Hampton Roads, but the appearance of the better armored and more maneuvrable
Federal monitors, showed it's weakeness.
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
CITYTAKEN
city=Richmond
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TEXT
^^RICHMOND FALLS TO THE FEDERALS!
^After a long and bitter siege the Confederate Capital falls in the hands
of the Union Army. Jefferson Davis and his Government flee into the deep
South but vows to continue the struggle for freedom.
^Retreating Confederate units regroup outside the city in an effort to retake it.
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=Sharpshooters
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
74,52
74,54
72,54
70,52
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
CITYTAKEN
city=Richmond
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
JUSTONCE
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=CSA Cavalry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
72,54
74,52
70,52
74,54
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
CITYTAKEN
city=Richmond
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
JUSTONCE
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=CSA Infantry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
74,52
74,72
72,54
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
CITYTAKEN
city=Richmond
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
JUSTONCE
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=CSA Infantry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
74,52
70,52
72,54
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Clipper
attacker=Confederates
defender=Union
@THEN
TEXT
^^CONFEDERATE RAIDER CAPTURES UNION MERCHANT VESSEL
^A Confederate Raider captures a Union clipper at sea.
After seizing cargo worth $200,000 the Confederates burn
the captured Federal ship.
ENDTEXT
CHANGEMONEY
receiver=Confederates
amount=200
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=CSS Alabama
attacker=Union
defender=Confederates
@THEN
TEXT
^^CSS ALABAMA SUNK BY USS KEARSAGE
^The infamous Confederate Raider CSS Alabama is cornered by the Federal
steam sloop, USS Kearsage, in the port of Cherbourg, France.
In the ensuing engagement the US warship sinks the Confederate ship.
Captain Semmes and most of his crew are rescued by a British yacht and
escape captivity.
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF



@IF
TURN
turn=8
@THEN
TEXT
^November 1861: Already legendary General "Stonewall" Jackson takes command
of the Confederate forces in the Shenandoah valley.
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=8
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=CSA General
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
65,45
67,43
68,40
66,40
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=10
@THEN
TEXT
^January 1862: David G. Farragut is given command of the Union blockade
fleet. He makes the steam warship USS Hartford his flagship.
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=10
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=USS Hartford
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
76,28
79,19
84,12
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=13
@THEN
TEXT
^April 1862: Ulysses S. Grant turns a near defeat into victory at Shiloh, Tennessee.
The battle is so bloody that members of the Federal government call for Grant's
removal. Lincoln replies: "I can't spare this man... He fights"
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=13
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Ulysses S. Grant
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
48,52
49,49
48,54
endlocations
@ENDIF


@IF
TURN
turn=16
@THEN
TEXT
^July 1862: Robert Lee succeeds Jo Johnston as Commander of the Confederate
Army of Northern Virginia.
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=16
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=Robert E. Lee
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
72,56
70,52
73,51
73,45
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=17
@THEN
TEXT
^^CSS ALABAMA JOINS THE CONFEDERATE NAVY
^Captain Semmes takes command of the CSS Alabama.
This will be the fastest, most dangerous raider in the Confederate fleet
Every Federal merchant ship in the Atlantic is in danger!
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=17
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=CSS Alabama
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
133,5
70,84
83,55
73,71
76,64
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=29
@THEN
TEXT
^August 1863: Both North and South make use of the new helium balloons as
artillery observation platforms. This is the first airborne war in history.
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Obsv. Balloon
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
64,16
55,5
36,8
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=29
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Obsv. Balloon
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
55,5
64,16
36,8
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=29
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Obsv. Balloon
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
36,8
55,5
64,16
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=29
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=Obsv. Balloon
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
62,70
48,68
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=29
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Confederates
unit=Obsv. Balloon
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
48,68
62,70
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
TEXT
^March 1864: As President Lincoln promotes General Grant to Commander-in-Chief
of the Army of the Potomac, his second in command, William Tecumseh Sherman,
takes over the Federal Army in the West and begins his march towards the sea.
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US General
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
46,72
44,70
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Field artillery
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
46,72
44,70
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Infantry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
46,72
44,70
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Infantry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
46,72
44,70
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=Field artillery
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
44,70
46,72
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Infantry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
44,70
46,72
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Infantry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
44,70
46,72
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
TURN
turn=36
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
owner=Union
unit=US Cavalry
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
112,32
44,70
46,72
endlocations
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Ulysses S. Grant
attacker=anybody
defender=Union
@THEN
TEXT
^^GENERAL GRANT KILLED IN BATTLE
^The greatest Union General falls to a Confederate bullet. The North mourns,
the South rejoices...What will become of the Union without it's greatest
champion?
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Robert E. Lee
attacker=anybody
defender=Confederates
@THEN
TEXT
^^GENERAL LEE KILLED IN BATTLE
^The beloved Confederate General falls to a Federal Minié ball. The South mourns,
the North rejoices...What will become of Virginia now that her favorite son is
no longer?
ENDTEXT
@ENDIF

@ENDEVENTS

In other words, how are you (or anyone making Civ3 scenarios now) going to approximate any of these events?

(Sorry for the length, I wanted to include the complete events file so you can see all the different types of events that can be used. FWIW, some of the newer Civ2 scenarios include more elaborate and clever use of events, more than what you see here.)

[player1]

Steve,

You know CTP2 had even scripting language far advanced compared that in Civ2.
But CTP2 was rushed, had bad AI and after that had no Activision support.

Still many people know how to fill the hole.
But others have just given up.

Civ3 is still game in Progress.
That means that bad things can become better.

And you now what?

That events language you pasted was NOT in vanilla Civ2.
It was added in first Civ2 XP: CiC.

Now you have expected that kind of thing is PATCH?

in PATCH?

Do you even have idea how much time is needed just for THAT?

And there had so much more basic things to add in editor.
Like placings starting postitions, cities or units.

They added them.

Still, it's inferior to Civ2 vanilla.
Still it is needed a way to change year increments, add some simple objecive system, and to add dilpomacy.


But for diplomacy there is workaround.
Edited saved games by some custom made utility program.

As for lacking objecives, Domination should serve for most basic scenraios.

And for year increments?
Ugh! For that we should wait for PtW.

And maybe some even scriping would be added in PtW or some other add on?
At least in is in their wish list.



P.S.
Current status of editor is good enough for making unhistoric, but enjoyable scenarios.
It's pity that some people can't see that.

[Jon Shafer]

Firaxis didn't have time to include anything else. They would have, if they could have, but I'm not going to worry about that.

Anyways, I'm having a problem with the editor (again, a new one).
What happened was that all of my infantry unit graphics (while in the editor) suddenly changed over to cavalry unit graphics. I thought, okay... that's weird. Next time I tried to run the scenario, all the units had been deleted.

[Steve Clark]

player1: I am aware of Civ2's iterative history, however, I was under the assumption that they wouldn't have to completely reinvent the wheel for Civ3 scenarios. Events were the final icing on the cake for Civ2 scenarios and when it came to designing Civ3, they seem to have not remembered the cake, let alone the icing. How can events (or their like) be considered an afterthought because the fans are demanding it when all they had to do was to remember Civ2:FW/MGE?

Six months ago, I predicited that scenarios along with their editor will be released in an expansion, just like with Civ2. So if they come in PtW, then the prediction will come true. It's just that with the hype and silent 'wish listing', I have not been sure that Firaxis really knows what it would take to provide a full, robust scenario editor (which is what they had promised).

Trip: Here's my confusion. Firaxis announced a couple of months ago that an editor would be coming out in June/July that will allow users to make scenarios. Then Thunderfall announced at civfanatics that we can now make real scenarios. The caveats seem to be that there are no events/scripts, no diplomacy editing, no turn length editing, no objectives and that any such scenarios will be 'unhistorical'. So tell me, how are you expecting a Civil War scenario (which I have a good deal of interest in) to play out?

[Jon Shafer]

Steve: The reason that events were an afterthought is because they had to make you able to place units first. Unfortunately, there's only so much that one guy can do in two months with an editor.

In re: to my scenario. There are two sides: Union and Confederate. A human and an AI. Therefore, the human player declares war on the AI on turn 1. The two sides fight to oblivion. No problem there (unless of course the human is stupid enough to play a building game instead ).

And it'll be released in a few days... I'm done with everything, I just need to finish testing it for bugs. You can find the link in my sig.

[player1]

Steve: What to say?
Make a wish, wait for PtW, and hopefully you'll get more complete scenario editor.


P.S.
But you still can make interesting things with this one too.

[Level]

The game came with a rules editor and partial map editor, this one is a rules and map editor with a partial scenario editor, PTW will have a full rules map and scenario editor and maybe events.

Is there a way to make it so each civ (not player) starts with different units without making a map?

[player1]

Originally posted by Level
The game came with a rules editor and partial map editor, this one is a rules and map editor with a partial scenario editor, PTW will have a full rules map and scenario editor and maybe events.

Is there a way to make it so each civ (not player) starts with different units without making a map?

Go to files forum, download New Earth scenario and look how it is done.

[The Rusty Gamer]

The Natural Resources tab help has Improvements and Wonders help instead.