MOD: The Ancient Mediterranean MOD 0.2.2

[conmcb25]

Well I just found it a few months ago, and like i said earlier my kid loves it.

I have not said much about city states myself because I have not used it, by the late game Im on an all out conquest anyway so the war weariness scared me off.

BTW Arrian did you get the spreadsheets for this game from CDG? Listing all the pertinent stats? If you need it lemme know and Ill post you a link

[Arrian]

Yeah, I saw the spreadsheets. I have a pretty good idea of the stats now, though, so I don't really need to refer to it. Thanks, though.

City States is just like Democracy w/regard to WW. You most certainly can fight wars under CS - they just need to be rather short if they're aggressive wars.

Luckily, since CS is so darn powerful, that can be arranged

I'm now thinking that a Despot -> Thing Law -> CS path is the way to go for me, especially if playing a civ like Persia (which has somewhat builderish traits and a cheap small wonder that pops out troops).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Justus II
0/1/1 unit support sounds good to me too. Any other suggestions/concerns? Glad to see the increased interest in the mod!

Other than offense/defense balance?

Just kidding, we've been over that.

Here's one:

Do you really think it's a good idea to allow civs to capture and use other civs' special small wonders?

-Arrian

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Arrian


Other than offense/defense balance?

Just kidding, we've been over that.

Here's one:

Do you really think it's a good idea to allow civs to capture and use other civs' special small wonders?

-Arrian

Case in point. I was the Romans in the Large Med Map with all the Civs. I built my wonder that gave me all the barracks, then I waited until the Eutruscan Capitol built Eutruscan Pottery and then guess what, it was mine. Pretty powerfull.

Cool on the spreadsheets. I didn't know if you knew about them or not.

[Arrian]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of: Roman + Etruscan wonders. Wow.

I noticed it when I captured Insidious Diplomacy from Media. That one is kinda nice, but it's not like getting free granaries!

-Arrian

[Justus II]

Originally posted by Arrian


Other than offense/defense balance?

Just kidding, we've been over that.

Here's one:

Do you really think it's a good idea to allow civs to capture and use other civs' special small wonders?

-Arrian

No, I don't think it's a good idea! Watorrey and I had several discussions on that very topic, and the potential problems. And if we could make them all Small Wonders, that would solve the problem. Unfortunately, most of the powerful ones (Mil Training, Etruscan Pottery) will only work as Great Wonders, which can be captured, and we can't do anything about it. (Unless someone can suggest a better idea).

(I decided in testing that the Dacians may be the best civ for the humans, as they start close enough to Macedon, Etruscans, and the Romans to grab 3 of the best civ-specific wonders, and still get their own benefits. Peltast is a great UU also, BTW.)

[watorrey]

what WHAT? did i hear my name?

Seriously... If you guys work something out that everyone is happy with and get me simple list, i'll get a patch out by christmas.

I'm gonna do what i can to fix the culturally linked bug and fix it so the biqs can be in the scenario AND/OR the conquests folder and not require the tam folder to be in both.

Anyone decide if the catapult was suppose to have a 2 range?

[thamis]

I think taking over wonders is absolutely a good idea. We once even thought of letting civs that take over other capitals be able to build the other civ's UUs.

Reason: If you're strong and getting stronger, this creates a rollercoaster effect. You won't be bored with having to finish off some stupid nation even though you already know you've won.

Also, if an AI takes over another AI, you really gotta watch out. It just makes strong powers stronger, which makes the game quicker.

[Justus II]

OK, Thamis has spoken. The civ-specific wonders will remain unchanged. We did put a lot of thought and work into adjusting the costs/pre-requisites/culture values to make sure at least every civ will actually build them.

[Arrian]

I tried to start a new game on the larger map (with barbs) and the game froze on me. I think it's because there are SO many barbs, right at the start, plus all the civs. My computer probably just can't handle it.

Playing as Media, had I not gotten a relatively lucky combat roll, my capital would've been sacked by barbs before it could even build a unit. As it turned out, my warrior (fortified on hill) survived with 1hp remaining.

Still, it was looking pretty grim. Barbs huts are everywhere, and if you don't start with warrior code... My scout didn't stand half a chance.

Speaking of which - all those barbs pretty much remove the Expansionist trait. My scout was useless.

Is this why the no barbs map was created?

-Arrian

[thamis]

Yepp, that's why I created a no barb map. It's faster and less difficult in the beginning.

[watorrey]

Arrian: Instead of playing the no-barb map, you may want to consider backing up the biq then editing it to reduce the # of barbs. A good start would be to remove all the direwolves but leaving the camps.

[Arrian]

I'm playing on the no-barb map. MUCH better! I'm not up for doing the work needed to trim the barbs down on the regular map, and this way makes it run faster on my computer, so it works for me

Status:

Level: Monarch, of course
Year: 1400 BC.
Civ: Rome
Government: Thing Law
Research: Literature (14 turns)
Contacts: Etruscans, Gallia, Germanic Tribes, Mycenae, Macedon, Scythia, Huns, Minoans, Carthage, Troy, Kolchis.

I hit the Etruscans with an ultra-early warrior rush and took their capital. This resulted in a repop to the ENE (Yugoslavia). Strong repop, too! It seemed like a blink of an eye and they had 3 cities. I got gold & a tech (animal cult) for peace. Their repop may have hampered Macedon, which I'm obviously pleased with.

I researched pottery & built 3 granaries, and then beelined for Thing Law. I traded tech freely, keeping me at or close to parity. I REXed (to the extent that's possible in TAM ) mostly northward and in the immediate environs of Roma, until I noticed landings in southern Italia. This resulted in brief wars against the Minoans and Mycenae, netting me 4 slaves for the loss of one Velite. I then filled in the South, although the Minoans did get Sicily.

Then Gallia got upity, demanded tech, and declared war on me when I refused. Military Training was actually the first thing I'd built in my 2nd city, so I had barracks everywhere, and a decent number of Velites. I also was closing in on having Broadswords. So I fought a defensive war until I got a MGL (thanks, Grog, you're always there for me!) and turned that into a 3x Broadsword army. I've now done bad things to Gallia, including taking their capital (and rushing the Pantheon there with MGL #2).

Meanwhile, I've hit the Hellenistic Age, just ahead of everyone else (the AI tech leaders lack only mathematics). I've a strong Great Library prebuild going, so I expect to easily grab that and then benifit as the scientific civs hit the Hellenistic Age.

The Etruscans have dutifully built their psuedo-Pyramids, which has made them my next target, once I do a little mop-up in Gallia. I've begun filling in southern Gallia and will also start down the coast of Iberia (no Iberians in this particular game). Speaking of which, I've seen a couple of isolated barbs elsewhere on the map, so I'm a tad concerned about Iberia. I've explored it almost entirely, but haven't had a unit down there in a long time. With the other civs poised to join me in the next age shortly... I may actually have more trouble there than with any of my civilized neighbors.

My current plan is to finish the GL, crush the Etruscans, switch to City States, EXPLODE (colonize the rest of southern Gallia, Iberia, and hopefully some other areas north of the Alps to help buffer against the Germans), Consolidate (courthouses, other basic city improvements), and then start knocking off civs again.

...

I did notice one potential bug:

I noticed that when I established embassies, sometimes it would take two tries to get one. I would click the right buttons, I would lose the cash, but nothing would happen the first time. Then, if I repeated it (and paid again), I got the embassy. Not with all civs, just about 1/2 of them. Odd, wouldn't you say? Of course I wasn't smart enough to keep a save of that, but I have yet to meet a bunch of civs so I may be able to reproduce it.

-Arrian

[thamis]

It's nice to see that you're ahead of everyone right now. But beware of Carthage and Kolchis... they've got the best land in the map to expand into. A game without Assyria or Babylon might get unbalanced quickly.

[watorrey]

I've noticed that establish embasy bug as well. The only way i can think of to fix it is also the one thing i'm not gonna do.... that is build the mod over from scratch with the latest editor. This may not even work however and might end up being a waste of time. If it's not a bug in the current editor, it's something that occured from all the upgrades starting from VC3. There's no way to tell.