Should the BIC files be compressed?

[Harovan]

I voted, that I don't care. For me the BIC files are ok in length. But I understand, that somebody, who creates maps, could take advantage from compressed files.

My approach would be: Make the editor able to read both formats (compressed and uncompressed) without any flag. That should be possible by adding an uncompressed header with compression information, or using the existing one. In the "Save as..." menu option, add 2 formats; compressed BIC and uncompressed BIC. Both should have the extension .BIC.

[WarpStorm]

I think Sir Ralph hit the nail on the head. Let each user decide whether he is going to save compressed or not. Make the editor and game handle both formats (the game already handles both formats of saves).

[Adm.Naismith]

Ok, compressed save files don't slow down my system, so I like more a directory of smaller files without the need for frequent delete of files. You can't have enough space for long, you GigaOwner so better reduced size than sorry.

Loading time slowdown? Come on, how often do you reload your save game? Is it really a great problem?

I spend more time using my PC with its always full disk than reloading save game.

About compressed BIC, I suppose that any good programmer can cope with a know, easily available compression schema, as PKWARE library IIRC.

I prefer a "ready to transfer/store" file than a bloated "quick to read", long time spent deleting/defragmenting an HD.

[Berserker]

I vote to keep them as they are unless you also release a Decompress/Recompress utility at the same time.

Remember there is a growing and very active community of Civ III players who are making Mods, editors and other utilites and it's a real plus in relations when the gaming company works with them as you have been doing rather than feeling threatened by some of their modifications and editors.

As a quick example....Blizzard has shot themselves in the foot with their changing of the file format, encrypting, encoding, etc. of the Save Game files of Diablo II. It finally got to the point where the two people who were making great editors had to give up, even though the editors could only be used on single play save games. As long as I'm playing a single player game, why should it be ANY of their business how I play? If I play on-line, the saved game file is on THEIR server, not mine and is therefore inaccessible for editing.

There are days when I like to play Civ III standard.....right out of the box. That's when I'm feeling mellow and patient. There are those others when I've had to deal with various idiots in the world and I want to go 'postal' on my poor little Civ opponants and that's when I need the editor!!

Just my 2 cents worth............

Bill

[Gelvan]

well, because I'm in modding right now, I reload quite often. And I restart a game even more often, because this unwanted SAV/BIC-Problem, introduced with 1.21.

I know I'm a bit repetetive on this, but it's really annyoing. Why did you do this? The Multiplayer-Community is surely not as big as the Modmaker-Community, and they rely on "modcom" Maps and Mod's anyway. So if you want to make most customer's happy, only change things which are really wanted.

Which leads us to another repetitive task: the minimap. I'm 100% sure, that there are more people waiting and hoping for this one, than for compressed sav or bic files.

[kring]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
Ok, compressed save files don't slow down my system, so I like more a directory of smaller files without the need for frequent delete of files. You can't have enough space for long, you GigaOwner so better reduced size than sorry.

Loading time slowdown? Come on, how often do you reload your save game? Is it really a great problem?

I spend more time using my PC with its always full disk than reloading save game.

About compressed BIC, I suppose that any good programmer can cope with a know, easily available compression schema, as PKWARE library IIRC.

I prefer a "ready to transfer/store" file than a bloated "quick to read", long time spent deleting/defragmenting an HD.

I appear to be in the minority vote, but I say either compress them or GIVE the option to have compress/noncompress.

As others have pointed out, many people don't have the extra HD space, and yes some files are already 600k+ in size. Why should these people have to buy floppy disks to keep them on?

When I bought my 20 GB HD system, I was led to believe it would take a long time to fill it up. That may be true if you don't buy a decent number of PC games. Shogun TW/WE easily takes over 1 GB of memory. I am down to just over 6 GB, and have NOT loaded Shogun or several other new games I have bought.

Speaking as a GigaOwner, I say either compress or give the option to decide compress/noncompress.

What too many people voting no don't realize is that many people CAN'T either: upgrade memory and/or buy a new computer. I visit about a dozen Civ3 sites on a regular basis, and many of the people I have talked with are running the game on a system that is barely capable of holding the game as it is. They have opted to buy games, instead of upgrade their systems.

Hopefully, the CD case will give accurate information on how much space is required to install the game, since the CD said 400 MB, and the game when to be installed said 500+ MB.

[FrantzX]

What is you included the civlopedia and/or the diplomancy text files in the bic? That you be one less file to back up/copy when playing mods/scenarioes an would give a goo reason for bic compression.

[wervdon]

Why don't you just do what zsnes does and have the game able to look inside of any .zip file it sees in its directory and grab bic files out of them for use.

[simwiz2]

I voted yes. I have a 2 GB harddrive, so there is rarely any empty space and compressed bic files might help a lot.

[Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS]

Since many people have asked, here are the reasons for and effects of, compressing BIC files:

Compressing BIC files will make them smaller. This is really the only reason to compress them.

Loading and saving a compressed BIC file will take slightly longer but it will not change the time it takes to load saved games. Also, the speed decrease caused by compressing the BIC files will not be as much as compressing the saved files (uncompressed saves are larger than uncompressed BIC files which means compression takes longer on saves). Most likely, the speed difference between compressed and uncompressed BIC files will not be noticeable since they are not be loaded during gameplay.

Compressed BIC files will be more difficult to modify outside of Civ3Edit -- the many tools that exist that modify BICs will have to have the compression algorithm built into them. However, the algorithm will be identical to that used in saved games so it wouldn't be impossible to add it to the tools (especially for Gramphos' and jimmyh's tools since they have already handled the compression in their saved game editors).

[kring]

Is it that much more work to allow an individual to choose whether or not to compress? Could it be done under preferences?

[The Viceroy]

It would be more work to include the option certainly .. but how much more work, depends on the setup of the code ..

If you want to add compression (no options) all you have to do is slap on the compression algorithm to the existing Load & Save options .. no so complicated if the algorithm already exists ..

To add the option, would mean a re-build of the GUI , additional functions to handle the on/off state, additional variable to remember the state, and then you can add the compression algorithm in the load/save IF the var says the user has selected compression.

of course, personally, id opt for the save box to have a compress option, but the load to auto detect from the BIC file if it is compressed or not .. cos at least then you can load either, regardless of the user selecting compress, and you don't need to bother with an additional member variable\functions holding Compression status ..

[XarXo]

Only in PBEM games and (if is applicable) other MP possibilities.

In the rest of possibilities, with a simple option to turn on/off is enough.

[Harovan]

No turn on/off is needed, if you make the game and the editor able to read both compressed and uncompressed BICs, and add in the "Save as..." dialog box two formats to choose, "Compressed BIC" and "Uncompressed BIC".

[Panag]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
No turn on/off is needed, if you make the game and the editor able to read both compressed and uncompressed BICs, and add in the "Save as..." dialog box two formats to choose, "Compressed BIC" and "Uncompressed BIC".

hi ,

okay , but lets say you dont know english that good , and press one or the other , and later ya work with that file and then ya press the the other option then the one you chose , ....its a Q from a 9 year old , ....for real !!!

have a nice day