Trading...doesn't seam fair! Is it?

[caliskier]

How do you get other civs to trade with you fairly? Maybe I don’t understand this trade thing, but when I try to trade for something it seams like I am getting an unfair deal. I ask the other civs for silk for example, and they wont give it to me unless I give them gems, wine, and spice. 3 for 1? That doesn’t seam fair. How does this work?

[zulu9812]

To be honest, I don't know. However, the AI constantly makes rediculous requests/demands, e.g they offer World Map for World Map+Physics+Free Artistry. You're right, the trading isn't fair.

[cad4life]

Actually I might have to disagree a little. I admit sometimes the AI have some outlandish request but I also think it depends on your place in the world and whether they need what you are trading. I think the AI will milk you for all you have if you let them. I also had some lop sided trades in my favor depending on the situation. For example if the AI already have luxuries they really don't need your luxeries so in order for you to get the luxeries they have they will demand something outrageous probably because they don't care weather you take it or not. Now if you are a very powerful country asking favors from weaker countries the trading will probably be a little more balance because they will like to win your favor. I have to admit in my experience when I was the strongest country or near the top the trading went my way about 90% probably. But then again I could be completely wrong. I do believe there are several factors that weigh in on trading and I don't think that it is to far out of control.

[trickey]

It is just another thing to make the game more challenging

[Flanker]

I think several things affect how fair trades you can make. Difficulty level, your civilization's military and cultural power compared to the trading civilization, if you belong to the same cultural group and what mood they are in. Mostly I buy things for a sum of money, because I usually tend to get quite a lot of cash. And if you have a very valuable resource or an exclusive tech rivaling civs might trade huge amounts for it. Sometimes I´ve noticed the AI be willing to trade 50 gold/turn for a single tech (eg. military tradition).

[Jim0322]

I have moved up to playing on Regent level and have noticed something about early trades. I have put a minimum of resources on research and focused on getting gold and rapidly expanding instead of worring about science. When I encounter a new civ they may propose a trade such as pottery for masonry. I always clear the table and then ask them what they will give me for whatever tech and 90% of the time they offer me a tech and gold! Or once in a while two techs. Early trading has definitely favored me. However, if I fall back in tech too much then my opponents can become demanding and declare war if I don't tribute.

I tend to strive for the Great Library, but have found that trading some tech early on protects me from getting so far behind in tech that my neighbors all declare war on me.

Jim

P.S. Early trading has been good for me, the rest of the game trading usually favors them. It pays to have a strong military and be technologcally advanced in negociations.

[zulu9812]

Fair trading by the AI? my arse. I'm in the middel of a Deity game as Greece: I control half the world's landmass and England has 16 cities. They just ofered me a MPP if I gave them 775 gold per turn!?! You what? I refused (obviously) and then asked them what they wanted for a MPP. The answer? Furs, Dyes, Electricity, Communism, World Map amd 8920 Gold. Excuse me?

[Primus40]

Originally posted by zulu9812
...asked them what they wanted for a MPP. The answer? Furs, Dyes, Electricity, Communism, World Map amd 8920 Gold. Excuse me?

ROTFLMAO Only because I have seen it soooo many times myself. But yes, sometimes it goes ridiculously in my direction - though definitly not as often. There is a thread in the CIV III/General forum going on now that also addresses this subject: Trading Absurdity.

Sir Ralph and Arrian (among others) offer some insight to how the AI is looking at some of the trades we offer and they refuse. And there are plenty of similar horror stories to amuse you as well. Misery loves company! Keep that military strong, then it's their choice... trade or die!

[Raion]

Each luxury has a different value, and that can be found in the back of the manual.

The AI does not trade fairly, but then would you!

It needs, perhaps, some work, unless they come crying to you to save their Civ from another Civ aggressor.

Play on, it will take some time!

[Explorer579]

Here are my observations on trading:
1) Early trading is fair. I ask what they would pay for, and give them 10% less money. It always works!

2) The weaker you are (poor, weak, backward), the more demanding they become.

3) Some civilizations are friendlier to you than others and trade more favorably.

4) After being nice to them (give them 5 gold, for instance), the trading is better the next turn.

5) If they ask for ridiculous demands, it means they don't need it. Forget about it (and give them few golds!)

6) If you fall back on technology, nobody wants to trade with you!

7) Ask them for a per turn payment if you are afraid they will wage war on you.

8) Give them one thing at a time if they want something from you. But if you want something from them, trade more than one item in one transaction (it is then more likely to be favorable --or the AI gets confused!)

9) World maps stay valuable to other civilizations when you know there isn't much land to discover and everybody knows the earth geography! So I keep selling the world map late in the game. The AI isn't smart there (I play regent level).

10) When I give the world map, contact, or a new technology, I know they will go sell it to other civilizations, so I trade it first and sell it to most if not all civilizations that would buy!

My 2 cents!

[Xarathas]

Man, AI does not know the meaning of "fairness"

This one time, I had all the resources except for Ivory, so naturally, I called up the only civ with Ivory (Zulus), and was prepared to give them just about anything for a deal. (Not really necessary, but figured what the hey since I pretty much had the game in the bag at the time)

I had about ~5k gold in treasury, raking in 400+ gold a turn, 2 luxuries and 1 resource available for trade (that he can use), and 2 techs ahead at the time. I hit the "What do you want for the Ivory" chat option, and he tells me "I'm unable to comply your request at this time" (not the exact words obviously, I forget what he says)

!@$*&@#

[zulu9812]

Generally speaking, the AI will only trade resources that it has in excess. Thus, if the Zulu had 1 excess Ivory, they would trade it with you, because they don't need it themselves

[Xarathas]

They did have it in excess IIRC, which is why it was so odd. I've seen them make outrageous demands and all, but this one was over the roof.