Improvements and governments

[RO]

In the editor you can select (check off) governments when editing improvements and small wonders. Does that imply that the structure is only effective or available when you are using the particular government? If it is available, will it then be effective if you switch government?

I have made a Senate, which becomes available when you research Republic. It works like a Forbidden Palace, and it would be neat if it could only be built and used when you are in Republic or Democracy. I have similarly made a High Court, available with Democracy. Iwould like that to be useable only in Democracy if possible. Other possibilities are the KGB (useable in Communism and perhaps Monarchy) and Regional Palace (available with Monarchy and useable in Monarchy and Republic).

It's probably wishful thinking, though.

[The Rusty Gamer]

It would've been nice to have units unique to government type but alas, no option for that from what I can see.

[Willem]

Re: Improvements and governments

Originally posted by RO
In the editor you can select (check off) governments when editing improvements and small wonders. Does that imply that the structure is only effective or available when you are using the particular government? If it is available, will it then be effective if you switch government?

I have made a Senate, which becomes available when you research Republic. It works like a Forbidden Palace, and it would be neat if it could only be built and used when you are in Republic or Democracy. I have similarly made a High Court, available with Democracy. Iwould like that to be useable only in Democracy if possible. Other possibilities are the KGB (useable in Communism and perhaps Monarchy) and Regional Palace (available with Monarchy and useable in Monarchy and Republic).

It's probably wishful thinking, though.

Well it's either great minds think alike, or fools seldom differ since I created a Senate as well. It seems a natural don't you think? Also a High Council for Monarchy and Parliament for Democracy. And yes they have to have that particular government in order to build it. But this only affects construction, once it built, it's built, regardless of whether you switch governments.

[RO]

I thought the Parliament and Senate were too similar, so I came up with the High Court (of Justice) instead. I think I will add the Internal Security Agency as well (KGB) - perhaps with the side effect of making one citizen unhappy in each city on the continent. Then again, perhaps not.

Another good one is "Global News Network" - available with Satellites. It can even be set to make people happy, though that may be an overkill. It's certainly good for reducing corruption. But it can't be a wonder if it is to reduce corruption, so I suppose a better name may be "Nationwide News Network" (with Radio?). I don't have a good graphics for it, though, and I'm not a graphics wizard.

But I don't want to overdo it. I have also reduced the price for the Forbidden Palace (but given it a maintenance cost) and set Temple and Cathedral to reduce corruption. I'm considering Barracks as well. It makes sense and is useful at start, but it also makes Sun Tzu even more attractive as a side effect.

[Willem]

Originally posted by RO
I thought the Parliament and Senate were too similar, so I came up with the High Court (of Justice) instead.

In my game, Parliament has no effect on corruption. Instead it decreases War Weariness with a global mood effect. I figured that with political representation, the people would be more inclined to go along with the government's war efforts. But I've created a Supreme Court that does. I've tied it into another layer of courts that I call District Court. I need 5 of those to build the Supreme Court.

Originally posted by RO
perhaps with the side effect of making one citizen unhappy in each city on the continent. Then again, perhaps not.

I've never thought about making someone unhappy with an improvement. Maybe I'll add that to my Factories.

Originally posted by RO

Another good one is "Global News Network" - available with Satellites. It can even be set to make people happy, though that may be an overkill. It's certainly good for reducing corruption. But it can't be a wonder if it is to reduce corruption, so I suppose a better name may be "Nationwide News Network" (with Radio?). I don't have a good graphics for it, though, and I'm not a graphics wizard.

I'm calling my version Mass Media, and it reduces War Weariness, with global mood effect, plus it also increases the treasury like Wall Street. (Increased advertising stimulates the economy) I've also created a whole new line for that, starting with Radio Station>TV Station, then to Broadcast Studio. I need 5 Studios for a Mass Media. As for the graphics, the Strategic Defense? one works just fine. It's just a satellite.

There's a couple of flags available that I'm finding very useful. These are "Must be near water", and "Must be near a river". They're currently only being used for the Nuclear/Hydro power plants. But using those allows you to have some restrictions as to how many of a certain improvement can be built. For example, with my education line, I can build a Library in any town, I can only build a University in towns near water (this includes lakes and rivers) and I can only build a Research Lab in cities near a river. I've tied this into my Aqueduct as well so that landlocked cities can't build one. They can't grow until Industrialization , when they can build a Pipeline.

[Optimizer]

Requiring water or a river for structures does not make sese to me. That wouldd make cities overdependent on rivers.

t seems better to raise the production and maintenance costs so that the most advance structures just pay off in really big cities.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Optimizer
Requiring water or a river for structures does not make sese to me. That wouldd make cities overdependent on rivers.

t seems better to raise the production and maintenance costs so that the most advance structures just pay off in really big cities.

It does make sense if you look at it historically. Early cities were dependant on an available water supply. Without one they couldn't grow. If you look at many of the cities in Europe, you'll probably find that the ones that have historically been the most dominant and prosperous have been built right next to a river. Amsterdam, Paris, London, etc. Even the first known civilizations sprang up close to rivers; the Tigris-Euphrates, the Nile. Not only did they provide a source of fresh water, but they also acted as a means of transportation, which increased trade and wealth. And with more wealth, there was more opportunity of building fancier structures.

[RO]

Originally posted by Willem
In my game, Parliament has no effect on corruption. Instead it decreases War Weariness with a global mood effect. I figured that with political representation, the people would be more inclined to go along with the government's war efforts.

Good idea.

But I've created a Supreme Court that does.

That would be my High Court - a question of terminology and translation. Supreme Court is obviously a better word. District Courts are interesting, but they all add complexity.

I'm calling my version Mass Media, and it reduces War Weariness...

Lots of interesting ideas. I'm not sure about War Weariness, though, IMO media exposure should increase it, not decrease it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by RO

That would be my High Court - a question of terminology and translation. Supreme Court is obviously a better word. District Courts are interesting, but they all add complexity.

Well that's the whole point. One of the problems I've always found with the civ games is the lack of anything to build by the end of the game, except for Military units. So I'm trying to have so many things to add to my cities, I'll never be able to build them all. As well, with Civilization being something of historical simulator, I'm trying to include the things that a normal society would have in place. Using my own society as a model, I see 3 layers of courts, not 1 as in the game. It provides me with an extra challenge to have to put the infrastructure in place for the Modern Era.

Originally posted by RO

Lots of interesting ideas. I'm not sure about War Weariness, though, IMO media exposure should increase it, not decrease it.

But mass media exposure makes it easier for a government to spread it's propaganda messages. Look at the current situation. The media is bombarding the people with "news" about the war against terrorism, and partly as a result, Bush has had the highest approval rating of any president. Granted that sometimes it can work the opposite way, as it did with the Vietnam war, but I think overall it would favour reducing War Weariness instead of increasing it. It would be great if I had a flag that allowed me to differentiate, i.e the effect is positive in a defensive war (terrorism) and negative in an offensive war (Vietnam). Unfortunatley I don't.

[RO]

I found out yesterday that wonders cannot reduce corruption and that only wonders can reduce war weariness. Too bad. I think the Parliament should be available to all, thus a small wonder.

Hmm, time to think up another solution.

[Willem]

Originally posted by RO
I found out yesterday that wonders cannot reduce corruption and that only wonders can reduce war weariness. Too bad. I think the Parliament should be available to all, thus a small wonder.

Hmm, time to think up another solution.

But there's another flag available, Global Mood Effects, bottom left of the screen. Checking that spreads the effect throughout all the cities, not just the one the wonder is built in. I'm not entirely sure yet whether it works for Reduce War Weariness, though I don't see why not. Right now it's only used for J.S. Bach's Cathedral. At any rate, you can set it so it makes 1 or more happy person in all cities.

Sorry, that's Continental Mood Effects, at the bottom of Other Characteristics, bottom left on the screen.

[RO]

But it still won't let me make a small wonder that reduces war weariness (in all cities) nor a large wonder that reduces corruption. Am I wrong?

[Willem]

Originally posted by RO
But it still won't let me make a small wonder that reduces war weariness (in all cities) nor a large wonder that reduces corruption. Am I wrong?

No, you've got it right, though you can still add those flags to affect the city that it's built in. BTW, I was taking a look at the Continental Mood Effects and it appears to only affect the Happy faces modifiers just above it, though I'm not entirely positive. It's rather a vague flag to work with. So it looks like my original idea probably won't work. However, creating 1 Happy person in each city should have more or less the same effect.

Another thing I've done with my government intsitutions is check the "Increases chance of Leader appearing" and "Can build Larger Armies, and build "Armies without a Leader". With the build larger armies flag, it looks like everytime you create a building with that checked, the army size increases by one each time. I don't know for sure, but I was told by someone that it does work. And looking at the screen showing the Army's units, there's room in there for at least 13 units, not just 4 as they have it now. So having a number of buildings with this flag checked should give you a hefty army by the end of the game. I haven't had the chance yet to test my theory though.

Also, you can change the Palace to a small wonder with the abiltiy to create armies right away. That I know does work. So I no longer have to wait for a Leader to build my first one, and I can use the Leaders strictly for building Wonders. A number of games I played until the Middle Ages without once having an Army, which I thought was a little silly. The only drawback though is that I can't move my Palace later on, which I never do anyway.

I don't really see the point in the restrictions they've placed on Armies frankly, they're not really any more powerful than the sum of the units inside. If I can get more units into one, that will be less units I have to move around the map.