Thinking of adding landmines, but how exactly does ZOC work?

[cassembler]

How about two types of mines, one that's really effective, brutal (bombard 60? use once and destroy?) and costly, and one that's really cheap and that's used as a "decoy" (bombard 8).

The graphic for them would be just a little dot, so all you'd see is a flag. In a human to human environment this could be very intimidating: is that a real mine or a fake one?

$.02

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, I put forward the idea of a sea mine that was immobile, could airdrop 2 squares, had a sub flag (to make it invisible)-unfortunately, I've just discovered that I've got the AI strategy set to "Naval Power", will the AI use the unit correctly under these circumstances (or even use it at all)? The other thing is that, as Korn can attest to, I don't REALLY know what the editor is capable of! Like, can a naval unit be given an airdrop flag?
Anyway, I'd be interested to know if it can be done.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Plutarck]

cassembler:

All you'd have to do is right-click the mine, and you'd know it's stats and what exactly it is.



Now, I've just done some testing and figured I'd share what I found. In short, the way defensive bombardment is handled in Civ3 is really, really crappy.

Here's what I found:

1- If a unit with bombard is attacked, the fact that it has bombard power/ability makes absolutely no difference.

2- If a unit with bombard is in a stack, it will perform a pre-emptive attack, regardless of whether it has Zone of Control or it's bombard range. Now, I figured that this strike would somehow be based in Rate of Fire - it isn't.

No matter how high the rate of fire, only 1 point of damage will be done to the attacker. It also does not matter how many artillery units are in a city, because each attacker will only get attacked by 1, and the most damage it can possibly take is 1 point of damage.

The same goes for Zone of Control.

3- Whether or not the attacking unit takes this 1 point of damage seems not to even be related to any value I know of. A 20 bombard strength with a 10 rate of fire unit (with 3 attack and 1 defense, while fortified in a jungle) against an attacking unit of 3/1, didn't do any damage to the attacking unit (even if the bombard unit has the maximum 10 rate of fire, only 1 point of damage can be done; I checked to make sure).

4- The "Bombard" ability relates only to whether or not you have the "bombard" button show up and whether or not you can give the unit the "Artillery" AI strategy. It seems to effect nothing else in the game.


So mines will not work properly unless they are just given a reasonably large defensive number, and their bombard rating will probably have no effect.


*sigh* Annoying. Very annoying.

[s3d]

I tried immobile unit with airdrop (tower). AI build them, but not airdrop them. They just sit in the city. (I added airport property to the palace, so AI _could_ airdrop them, it just dont want .And it was not hauling them by land transport (also available) either...

[Immortal Wombat]

Unfortunatly, the way the AI works is about as transparent as tank armour. Does the AI *know* how to use modded buildings and units, or does it merely select from the list of "best" available units/buildings? Or does it only use default ones? Will it be able to airdrop anything other than paras from anywhere other than (whatever the default building is)?

[Willem]

Re: Thinking of adding landmines, but how exactly does ZOC work?

Originally posted by korn469
there has been compliants that forts in civ3 are worthless because they give free shots and don't actually stop a unit

but i had an idea, if you created a 0.0.1 land unit that was immoble but had zoc, would it actually stop an enemy unit or would it just add to the free shot ability?

what i am unsure of right now is, has free shots replaced civ2/smac ZOCs where the unit had to stop?

if it has, then would a 0.X.1 unit (set to act as a cruise missile and given immobile, but either load or airdrop, and possibly hidden nationality) actually defend but die automatically? unfortunantly i am almost positive that the AI couldn't handle this unit (because if set as a defensive unit it would stack them in its cities, and if set as anything else it wouldn't do anything)

what would be really cool is if a land unit had the submarine ability then you wouldn't be able to see it, so you could plant a few of these and actually be able to defend your boders

anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

Don't bother with ZoC, give them a Bombard Strength, Range 0. This will give them a "free shot" if an enemy unit enters the square. This works well with Archers/Longbowmen also.

[Willem]

Originally posted by SlightlyMadman


The bombard ability is also wrong, as it allows it to bombard approaching units.

Not if the range is 0. Then it only gets the free shot.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Unfortunatly, the way the AI works is about as transparent as tank armour. Does the AI *know* how to use modded buildings and units, or does it merely select from the list of "best" available units/buildings? Or does it only use default ones? Will it be able to airdrop anything other than paras from anywhere other than (whatever the default building is)?

It does build modded improvements. I've created a number and I can see that it is indeed building them. It seems to help if you give it a cultural value, or some other incentive. Though I'm not sure about the last part. It does like cultural incentives though.

[Willem]

Originally posted by SlightlyMadman

Does it really need to be invisible? I don't know a whole lot about mine fields, but, even if you don't know they're there initially, you would find out after your first troop walked in. That's practically nothing in game terms. They'd mostly be used to either force people through them or around them, not to take them by surprise, right?

What about making them colourless?

[star mouse]

my thoughts:

Mines - making mines work accurately is hard. Instead, I think they should work like this.

Booby trap
immobile
bombard, range = 0
hidden nationality
Invisible if possible

Trap layer
move 1
transport capacity 2
can transport booby traps
Wheeled

[godinex]

Yeap. I think is this way too.