Corruption question

[battists]

OK, my first post. I've been looking all over to make sure I'm not double-posting, but no success.

I know that corruption is a big topic of discussion, but just how crippling is it supposed to be? I'm running the patch, and my wife is playing a game on Chieftain/Standard/8 civs. She's in the early ADs in Monarchy, and practically all of her cities get just 1 shield and 1 commerce. All the rest goes to waste and corruption, even in cities that should have 10-15 shields and commerce. In fact, she had LESS corruption under Despotism.

What gives? Can anyone point me to a definition of how corruption *should* work? Is there a particular thread that would be most helpful for this?

Thanks!

Steve

[Gutz]

How many cities total does she have. There is a certain threshhold that when you pass it you get stellar corruption. I am unsure of what the exact limits are though. Anyone else know?

[battists]

OK, upon second discussion, it appears to be more of a waste issue than a corruption. She only has about 25 cities, and is just into the industrial age (hmm, doesn't sound like a recipe for success, but that's just me).

Anyway, she's got the concentric ring thing going:

X...X...X...X...X
X...X...X...X...X
X...X...O..X...X
X...X...X...X...X
X...X...X...X...X

Don't know if she has the Forbidden Palace, but the problem seems to be occurring with the outer ring. She only gets 1 shield of production in any of them.

Is that reasonable?

[EduardoSilva]

User the editor intensively, on the central bic or on the scenarios. Increase the limit of cities by a factor of 10 (you will become increased also the number necessary to build Forbidden Palace, but what gives) and make some building affect corruption (my choice: Temple, Library and Marketplace).
Hope it helps.

[Dreifels]

Originally posted by EduardoSilva
User the editor intensively, on the central bic or on the scenarios. Increase the limit of cities by a factor of 10 (you will become increased also the number necessary to build Forbidden Palace, but what gives) and make some building affect corruption (my choice: Temple, Library and Marketplace).
Hope it helps.

No, you still will be able to build the FP when you have 8 cities, but the problem is, that the formula for the corruption-by-distance-factor seems to be buggy, so that after a distance limit is reached, all buidings to reduce the corruption are worthless, you'll have 95% of the shields wasted.

This more a problem is, the more you increase the map size.
After a lot of hrs testing and experiemting, now I made this solution, and it seems to work.

Download and test it: Civ3-Corruption-Solution-10.zip

[EduardoSilva]

Originally posted by Dreifels
No, the problem is, that the formula for the corruption-by-distance-factor seems to be buggy (...)
Civ3-Corruption-Solution-10.zip

Sorry, Sir, I do not know if your solution works (I will test it), but I can assure you that mine does also. In huge world, democracy, without police stations, a city had a waste of 5/21 will all modified buildings + couthouse, being it in AUSTRALIA and having the capitol in EGYPT. That is for me acceptable.
Do not discard the solutions of others so easily. We are all happy that there are many ways to solve the problem. And yes, I think also that corruption did go out of control. The game is intended to have the chance to win by conquering he world, and with the built-in corruption, in a huge world, such chance is but a bad joke.

[Dreifels]

Originally posted by EduardoSilva
In huge world, democracy, without police stations, a city had a waste of 5/21 will all modified buildings + couthouse, being it in AUSTRALIA and having the capitol in EGYPT.

my figures are different (original bic 1.16f patch, set by editor optimal city amount to 500, percentage to 100%) : Huge terran map, palast in Paris, Industrial Age (this also gives a drop down!) settlement in Southafrika and South America, both have 29 shields of 30 weasted, with building courthouse and police! When getting 31 shields. Absolute inacceptable. (Before Industrial age I got 2 shields and 25 wasted of total 27)

All cities with more than 30 fields far from palast such had.

[EduardoSilva]

Originally posted by Dreifels
my figures are different (original bic 1.16f patch, set by editor optimal city amount to 500, percentage to 100%) : Huge terran map, palast in Paris, Industrial Age (this also gives a drop down!) settlement in Southafrika and South America, both have 29 shields of 30 weasted, with building courthouse and police! When getting 31 shields. Absolute inacceptable. (Before Industrial age I got 2 shields and 25 wasted of total 27)

Ahá. Did you also made what I said, to give some buildings (Library, Temple, Marketplace) a Courthouse-effect?

[Dreifels]

Originally posted by EduardoSilva
Ahá. Did you also made what I said, to give some buildings (Library, Temple, Marketplace) a Courthouse-effect?

Sir, look what I made in my version/solution.

Without that this happens:
a) original patch 1.16f, no changes, huge map
= all buildings in a city with distance more than 35 fields from the palast are obsolete, independent, if you set thea all to reduce corruption or not with editor. Also without effect is changing the optimal city amount.
b) what a little effect has (1 shield better, 28 of 30 wasted instead 29 of 30) is, that the police in 1.16f got also corruption reducing flag. But court is without effect, harbour, barracks, etc. (even if you set it in editor or not).

But it is the question anyway how you will finance all these buildings. This may happen for one city, but not for several.

Your solution is not general wrong, but not complete and not enough.
And the other question is, if really such buildings like cathedral should get corruption reduce flags as solution, I really can't see that ever a church had reduced any corruption on earth, and if I remember to the Christian time before 1500 then just they had been the most corrupt people over all.

Also under this aspect, I tried to make such modifications only, wich are logic and corresponding with real live.
I believe that the 5 regional palasts solution (having all no culture points) *together* with corruption flag for barracks, harbour (got also one culture point) , airport (got also one culture point) the better and more correct way are.
I also added different research requirements for all these palasts, so that they are available step by step. It's so more balanced to the AI, as the AI tries to build all at once if possible, without stratigec plan where such is optimal and where worthless. Now it has a relation to the time and the average expansion of the human and the AI factions.

As final modification I increased the costs for a settler and slowed the research at huge maps (up to factor 300), increased the amount of optimal cities.

Read the complete explanation and test it. Cost me 2 weeks intensive work and testing to balance it well. It isn't a "quick shot"

[Baldrick]

The solution I found to be working quite well is the following:

(1) Download the hacked Civ3edit application available on this website under the files forum.

(2) In Civ3edit, deselect the Use Default Rules check and edit the tabs : Difficulty level and Governments (I think that's what they're called - I'm at work so don't have a copy of the program to reference). In these two tabs you can adjust number of optimal cities or something like that and also a difficulty modifier which affects how rampant corruption is (it's a value which is lower at higher difficulty levels eg 100 on Regent - the higher this value the lower corruption will be). Sorry my directions are not more precise - you'll find the two numbers to edit by using the help if you get stuck.

(3) Save the scenario then play it in Civ3. I have found that corruption is a lot lower with government type Republic.

Good luck.

[Dreifels]

Originally posted by Baldrick
The solution I found to be working quite well is the following:
[...]
(2) In Civ3edit, deselect the Use Default Rules check and edit the tabs : Difficulty level and Governments (I think that's what they're called - I'm at work so don't have a copy of the program to reference). In these two tabs you can adjust number of optimal cities or something like that and also a difficulty modifier which affects how rampant corruption is (it's a value which is lower at higher difficulty levels eg 100 on Regent - the higher this value the lower corruption will be). [...]

This only a little helps. In Democracy still the corruption is more than 90% if the city's distance more than 35 fields far from the palast and building court gives only 1 shield back. (i.e. if you have 32 shields, then you get "only" 29 wasted instead 30 before, if the distance is too far.)
Furthermore, reaching industrial times + modern times science it gets a jump up again b 50% more corruption.

So if you you on huge maps with cities being far away from palast, that all gives no right solution.
With my mod you get then only 10-30% corruption instead 90-95%.

[EduardoSilva]

Originally posted by Dreifels
This only a little helps. In Democracy still the corruption is more than 90% if the city's distance more than 35 fields far from the palast and building court gives only 1 shield back. (i.e. if you have 32 shields, then you get "only" 29 wasted instead 30 before, if the distance is too far.)
95%.

Ok, I leave it here. Your solution will be tested, and it is probably better. My numbers are still not the same (I gave an example) for my solution, but this is not important. I leave the thread.