Modding Challenge. Ancient Advances

[hetairoi22]

Re: Modding Challenge. Ancient Advances

I have some far reaching changes to technologies etc that I'd like to suggest to any of the VERY talented modders out there in the community. I realize that some of these changes have already been suggested (or even already done), I just include it all for the sake of completion. I'll start with just the ancient tech tree. If the modders respond favourably to my ideas, then I'll proceed to Middle Ages and up.

Ancient Techs and Units:

Smelting: Prerequisites: Bronze Working.
Allows: Smithy-Improvement. Production-2. Requires Copper resource.
Leads to: Iron Working.

Woodworking: Prerequisites: None.
Allows: Wood-Strategic Resource.
Allows: Carpenters-Improvement. Production-1, requires wood to build.
Leads to: The Wheel.

Stone Crafting: Prerequisites: None.
Allows: Stone-Strategic Resource.
Allows: StoneMasons Workshop-Improvement. Production-1, requires stone to build.
Leads to: Masonry.

Engineering: Allows: Lumber Yard-Improvement. Production-2. Requires wood to build.

Iron Working: Allows: Foundry-Improvement. Production-2. Requires Iron and Smithy to build.

I think adding the above techs would complicate things alot... And wouldn't the production bonus be to big? If you build them all you get +100%. Have you suggested three so that if you haven't got stone and copper f.x. you could still get bonus production? I still think these techs are pretty useless though...

Military Training: Prerequisites: Warrior Code.
Allows: Military Academy-Minor Wonder. Requires 5 barracks to build.
Allows: Cohorts (3/2/2)-Unit. Like Swordsmen, except better discipline allows them to travel greater distances and retreat from most battles. Requires Iron.
Leads to: Aristocracy (with mysticism).

Cavalry Tactics: Prerequisites: Horseback Riding and Military Training.
Allows: Armoured Horsemen (2/2/2)-Unit. The introduction of the first Barding (horse armour) allows these horse units to absorb more damage. Requires Horses and Iron.

I really like these ideas, though. They add diversity, BUT maybe Military Training should come just a little bit later, after Iron Working or something. So that you get it after Swordsmen? That would be better (IMHO).

Aristocracy: Prerequisites: Mysticism and Military Training.
Allows: Villa-Improvement. Reduces Corruption and +50% tax revenue.
Leads to: Monarchy (with Polytheism) and Athenian Democracy.

What's the "Villa" suposed to represent? It's name seems a little bit un-ancient IMO.

Athenian Democracy: Prerequisites: Aristocracy.
Allows: Ampitheatre (Forum)-Improvement. Reduces # of cities corruption.
Allows: Parthenon-Great Wonder. Doubles effect of ampitheatres and reduces war weariness in all cities on same continent. Requires stone to build (Athenian Democracy Only).

I love this one! Cool.

Empire: Prerequisites: Monarchy and Map Making.
Allows: Slaves (0/0/2)-Unit. Like a worker, except cheaper to build and no maintenance cost. Requires Indigenous Population.
Allows: Slave Labour System-Minor Wonder. Gives +50% Production to all cities on same continent. Requires Indigenous Population. Expansionist characteristics.

I'd call this tech Imperialism. Many civs have had an empire, but Imperialism is more a way a civ "lives". If it is Imperialistic, it wants to take land and people by force, which i think is what you mean (With slaves and all).

Changes to Existing Advances:

Republic: Allows: Senate-Minor Wonder. Reduces # of cities corruption for all cities on same continent. Requires min. 5 cities to build. Expansionist characteristics (Republic Governments only).
Allows: Garrison-Improvement. Acts as police station. Militaristic characteristics.

Monarchy: Allows: Governors Palace-Improvement. Reduces distance-based corruption.
Allows: Royal Gaurd (3/4/1)-Unit. These units are the pride of the ruling monarch, and are given the best weapons and armour to destroy the monarchs enemies (Monarchy only).

Hmm. I like these govt. specific minor-wonders, but I think you could decrease the number of minor wonders overall. I think there are to many... to confusing.

Mathematics: Allows: Pythagoras' School-Great Wonder. 2x research.

Philosophy: Allows: Academy-Improvement. +50% science.
Allows: School of Socrates-Great Wonder. 2x Research.

Writing: Allows: Scribes' School-Improvement. +50% science.

Isn't it to much with two science wonder? I think the Academy should have a high cost. Mayeb more than shields and maintenance? Like 4 science specialists?

Pottery: Allows: Barley-Strategic Resource.

Bronze Working: Allows: Copper-Strategic Resource.

Mysticism: Allows: Opium-Luxury Resource

I don't think you should have the Barley resource, there are so many already. Maybe the destillery should require no resources? Or barley could be a luxury?

Engineering: Should be brought back to Ancient times. Allows: Sewer Channels-Improvement. Allows City Size 3. Adds to Population pollution.
Allows: Lumber Yard-Improvement. Production-2. Requires wood to build.

I like this resource! Sewer Cs should allow city size 4-5? So you could grow just a little bit more? Another name would be the "Qanat" which is the name of old middle-eastern sewers.

New Resources:

Indigenous Population: Required to build Slaves and Slave Labour System. These squares give bonus commerce.

Maybe you should use captured workers instead?

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

Nice ideas! Keep up the good work!

Regards,

H22

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Again,

I don't see any problem with increasing production levels a little bit! As you've already mentioned, you'd need all of these resources to be under your control, and they do expire reasonably quickly!!
As for the increased research levels granted by the added improvements and Great wonders, 2 things:

1) Academy requires a school of scribes (I think) or a library in order to build it!

2) Being Great Wonders, it's unlikely you'll be able to get your hand on BOTH the Pytagoras and Socrates schools!!

3) Like the Production improvements, they don't have a very long time before they expire!!

In many cases, I've added improvements or Wonders to an Advance in order to make an otherwise "boring" stepping stone advance, into something worth getting!! (eg. The Valley of the Kings Wonder for Polytheism)

Villas refer to the very sumptuous country estates owned by the aristocrats of Classical civilizations like Athens and Rome. These estates were worked by literally hundreds of both slave and free labourers (hence the production bonus)
hope that clears things up for you!

I've chosen to have Indigenous Population as a strategic resource to represent the many Small tribes that dotted the landscape during the times of the great Classical and Medieval empires! You can already capture workers from rival Civs, but I decided to add a new dimension to the Slavery issue (it DID happen, after all). It's much the same as the Minor Tribes in the Goody Huts!!

You mentioned an inability to add new items to the tech tree et al. Have you tried using the Hacked Civ3 Editor and related programs that you can find in the Files section of this forum. According to the real prolific Modders in this community it works great, and gives you almost limetless ability to add to the game (or so I've heard!)

Anyway, I hope that explains things for you!

Yours,
Marcus Hicks

[Velociryx]

Hiya Aussie! Just a note here to let you know that I linked my Mod-Making thread over in the general section (where I'm soliciting for ideas) to yours here because it contains....well...a WEALTH of excellent and well-considered ideas (sadly, with the limited number of open tech slots we have available to us, there are too many techs listed here to be able to include them all, but I must say, I"m impressed by all of them!)

Anyway, just wanted to let you know I saw this thread, and invite you over to mine in the general section to possibly participate in our discussions there.....

-=Vel=-

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Vel,

I should confess from the outset that I do not have the game, but owe all my ideas to reading these forums (especially Creation and Files), as well as the Civ3Stats resource!!

I'm saddened to hear about the lack of additional tech slots. I just counted the number of additional techs and counted 19!! (8 in Ancient, 5 in Middle Ages, 5 in Industrial and 1 in the Modern!!)

Is this tech problem even with the Civ3Copy tool posted on this forum (the hacked one), if not, maybe there's still hope!

If you could let me know how many extra techs the game can support I may be able to modify the tech tree accordingly.

I'd most likely move Fascism into Nationalism as a government option (and have The Geneva Convention and Stormtrooper under that tech), and move labour camps to communism.

I could move geurillas into espionage (and remove Geurilla tactics as a tech).

I could remove stonecrafting from the tech tree. as well as Classical Democracy (moving the improvements and government to Aristocracy).

I could remove Siege tactics and move the units and improvements into Feudalism, and also remove distillation as a seperate tech. That brings the total down to 13 (I think). Let me know if this is possible!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

[Velociryx]

Ahhh....so close! ::sigh::

So far, in our mod-work, we've "spent" 4 of the 11 tech slots, but made the preliminary decision to ditch "physics" as a tech, adding one back into the mix. So....we've got 8 slots left.

I'm a little torn, too....initially, I wanted to spend at least four of our tech slots on the modern era to flesh it out a bit, given the relatively scant number of techs currently there, but once I saw what you were able to do in the early game, I was really impressed with it! (so now I find myself thinking that perhaps the bulk of our efforts ought to be spent in the three eras that constitute the bulk of the game and sorta let the Modern era do what it will.....

Have a look at our thread and see where we're going with our mod....I'd love to work as many of your *outstanding* ideas in as I can!

-=Vel=-

[darkangel]

Excellent ideas!

I was toying around with several of them but came to the conclusion the game in its current state cannot support a major rework. I had pretty much shelved the ideas. Then I found your post. It gave me the warm fuzzies!

Currently I’m working on city and leader name lists for all Civ’s as well as remaking the wonder images and testing some Government mods.

I really want to get involved in a major project but I have yet to find one that is all inclusive with focused and devoted (as well as talented) members with a timetable and all that good stuff.

I will check out Velociryx thread and if he and his team are going to incorperate most if not try to get it all into his efforts I will offer my services to his team.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Vel,

O.K, after much soul searching, I think I've come up with the tech answer.
First of all, as you'll see above, I've already decided to ditch Theory of Gravity, which I feel is TOTALLY SUPERFLUOUS (as it is really a part of Physics), and have moved Newtons University to Physics-so we, in fact, have 12 free slots!!

I have also decided to remove the following techs:

Ancient: Woodworking (Move Carpenters and wood resource to: the wheel), StoneCrafting (slightly superfluous, due to Masonry tech-where I've moved stonemasons and stone resource), Cavalry tactics (moved heavy horsemen to military training). On a side note, I've decided to add the government: Dictatorship, as an option for the Republic advance (wise when you consider that the Roman Republic granted Caesar the title of Dictator, and many modern dictatorships call themselves Republics). I've also decided to add the Minor Wonder: Martial Law under Republic as well, this wonder will reduce corruption, as well as doubling the effectiveness of existing corruption reducing improvements (courthouses, prisons, garrisons etc.) The cost is an increase in unhappiness and a decrease in culture.

Middle Ages: Siege Tactics and Distillation (moved Distillary, Fire Catapult and Fire Galley to Trade Specs, Ballista to Invention and Siege Tower to Engineering).

Industrial Age: Geurilla Tactics (move geurillas and rebel camps to Espionage) and Refrigeration (move Supermarkets to electricity or steel).

Modern: Fusion Power (move Fusion Plant and Deuterium to Superconductor)

That leaves us with a grand total of 11 new techs which leaves us with 1 fresh slot to fill (thanks to no TOG), I'm tempted to put back either woodworking, distillation or refrigeration, but I'm not sure which we should do! I still don't understand why they have such an ODD number?! I mean why not 12 techs instead of 11???

Anyway, let me know what you think, and then I can adjust the tech tree accordingly!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

>>>>Bump!!!!