Wonder Guide

[vmxa1]

Master Marcus no question that Bachs is useful. I tend to not want to take the time to get Music as it is not required to get to the next age. Since I do not play larger than std maps very often, it is of less value.

[ducki]

Master Marcus: I find Sistine to be more useful when playing Religious - cheaper cathedrals mean twice as many content citizens twice as fast.

Robber Baron: I've found the opposite. In PtW, I find the AI emphasizing the Library, as well as most of the other (used to be easy) wonders more than in Civ 3. Maybe it's because I play at Regent and sometimes Monarch.

[Bierkieser]

I play Regent on a Large map and I go for Sistine when I play the Egyptians. The happiness bonus is awesome when you can build cheap cathedrals. The next best is Hoover. Again, playing continents on a large map this gives 90% of your cities a power plant with 0 pollution.

[Master Marcus]

I agree on most of what's been said here, and Hoover Dam is one of the very few GW that's equally useful whatever the map size. I prefer Sistine over Bach's, and I can do it at Regent, but at Monarch the AIs generally beat me to it ( for Sistine ) so if I can't get Bach's at Monarch, I carefully plan for Smith's. The most important GW for me remains Hoover, and having that sole GW is sufficient to win when I play huge maps 'til modern era.

[ducki]

Do you find that having Hoover = Win means that ToE = Hoover = Win?

I love ToE, enough that it might be in my personal top 5, maybe.

[Robber Baron]

Good point, Ducki. ToE is basically a Hoover strategy, and as such invaluable. Then selling the techs you acquire (carefully, preserving your window on exclusive Hoover construction) is bonus.

[punkbass2000]

ToE is a strategy in and of itself, for me. It's often the only or at least the first wonder I build.

[vmxa1]

ducki, I would not state it like that, more like AI=Hoover equals what the heck am I doing. IOW the hoover doe not give me the win it is something I get because I am winning.

[ducki]

That's a very interesting viewpoint, vmxa1, I never thought of it that way.

For me, it's usually still quite a close game at the start of Industrialism, but fortunately, the AI never seems to head for Electricity.

I, on the other hand, (when it's a close game) always beeline for Electricity, knowing the power of a)Free Tech and b)Hoover Dam.

I've never not been able to buy the Nationalism branch, and depending on how close the game is, I have even skipped Steam Power (*gasp) to ensure I get to Scientific Method first. It's worth so much that I can't afford to let the AI get there first.

I'm probably not doing something "right" in the Middle Ages for it to always be that close when the decision comes between Nationalism, Steam, and Medicine, but at least this time around (AU205) I'm at the 4-turn per tech stage.

Also, I didn't say Hoover=Win, someone else did, I just expanded Hoover to be equal to ToE. Or at least strongly related.

I've never not gotten ToE and Hoover, but it's also never been a "sure thing" because I'm in the driver's seat. It's been a decision, not a reward.


I do really like the viewpoint you gave me on it, though.
Thanks v.

[Panag]

hi ,

in the later stages of the game its usefull to have the CFC and Longevity , the later one is usefull when you go to war , if there is enough food in the city ( at place x ) then you very quickly get rid of unhappy expatriots (citizens from the previous civ )

have a nice day

[Bierkieser]

I agree that ToE is important, but it doesn't speed me to Hoover. I usually discover Electricity before I have the ToE built and I will change over to Hoover from ToE if I didn't start a 'false palace' in anticipation.

RE: Smith's... This is the 'Nail in the Coffin'. Assuming you have all the important resources, Smith's puts you in the financial position to have your way with the AI.

[ducki]

Originally posted by Bierkieser
I agree that ToE is important, but it doesn't speed me to Hoover. I usually discover Electricity before I have the ToE built and I will change over to Hoover from ToE if I didn't start a 'false palace' in anticipation.

Ah, I will usually go back and get whichever tech has Factories and Replaceable Parts while it's building(only about 10 turns in my latest game) and then catapult to Electronics with a couple of towns that have factories already built working on a prebuild for Hoover.


Actually, I should note that the 10-turn build for ToE was in a town with rail around most of the tiles and the IronWorks, so it's probably a 20-turn build in a "normal" good wonder-building city.


Another option is to turn off your research for the 10-20 turns it takes to build ToE. If you've never tried it, do so. You wouldn't believe how much money you can accumulate in just a few turns. Especially if you've been at 70% research.

[vmxa1]

I will never skip steam power, it is always my first tech in the age. Once I get my rails up it is lights out. For one thing, you will get the boost from the tiles for getting the RR in place and for the other, now I can defend with fewer troops. The boost lets me get research done faster. What comes next maybe up for debate.

[Bierkieser]

Originally posted by ducki


Another option is to turn off your research for the 10-20 turns it takes to build ToE. If you've never tried it, do so. You wouldn't believe how much money you can accumulate in just a few turns. Especially if you've been at 70% research.

I will try this in my current game. I'm usually at 60%-70% research at this stage so the extra gold could be worth it. Especially because this is the stage where I find out that I don't have coal or rubber within my borders so I have to go populate some small isolated island and rush build a harbor.

[ducki]

vmxa1 - now you mention it, I think I get Steam first, then beeline for Scientific Method, for exactly the reasons you gave - smaller required defense, boost in production, with the addition of faster reinforcements for whatever military campaign I may undertake. being able to transport a defender or artillery or attacker from deep within your empire all the way to the front in 0 or 1 turn is invaluable. Good catch.

Bierkieser - on my recent AU205 game, I found that I'd complete the ToE exactly in the middle of my current Research, so I reapplied my beeline to Electronics(Hoover), set research to Zero, and went from Net Income of 60 or 70gold to about 1000 or 2000 gold per turn. Which gave me enough money to upgrade all my old Numidian Mercs, Muskets, and Riflemen(no pikes) to Infantry with plenty left over for a rainy day.

Good luck, and don't ever pass up an opportunity for Ironworks, especially in your capitol or FP city.