Alliances, please explain

[dweez]

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly. Let's say that X agree with Y to have an alliance against Z. This is a deal that lasts 20 turns. Does that mean that if X or Y signs peace with Z before the 20 turns he/she will be regarded a cheater?
If they manage to punish Z really hard in 5 turns, isn't there any way for X and Y to agree to stop the war without anyone losing honor?

[PhillipII]

im not sure how it works exactly as the manual doesnt really get into the details but here is what i have observed so far.

When X asked Y and Z to join a war against me then i have never been able to get Y to even talk to me, let alone settle for peace.

UNLESS

X first agrees to peace with me.
After X agrees to peace i have found that Y and Z are willing to at least negotiate and sometimes settle for peace.

I have never had a single War last for more than 20 turns so these examples are all within the 20 turn timeframe of the military alliance.

I think of it this way: its no good for Nazi germany to ask Australia to end WWII if Britain isnt going to agree to it. You have to negotiate with the "head" of the alliance against you.

[dweez]

Originally posted by PhillipII
I think of it this way: its no good for Nazi germany to ask Australia to end WWII if Britain isnt going to agree to it. You have to negotiate with the "head" of the alliance against you.

Does it mean that if I ask China to attack Russia, they agree and then I make peace with Russia leaving those two fighting, I'm still an OK guy? But if China asks me to attack Russia, I agree and then make peace with Russia later, then I'm a backstabbing bastard, unless China has made peace with Russia first?

I cannot find any description of how it works and I cannot think of any good way to test it either.

[PhillipII]

Good point.
Sorry, i was only thinking in terms of the AI allying against us.

I suspect it might depend on whether your mutual enemy has any military units within your allies borders.
I say this because i have only ever gotten peace out of the AI once no more of my units were within hostile territory unless they were truly desperate for peace.

[smellymummy]

You will be considered a bad guy if you manage to reach peace during the military alliance. sometimes an aliance can go beyond 20 turns though.

When considering peace, make sure you check your diplomacy screen and see exactly what kind of deals you made. Breaking treaties like that costs you dearly.

for mutual protection pacts I'm not exactly sure how it works. I guess you need to stay at war for a while... the longer you are the better your ally will view you. Because when you automatically go to war due to a protection pact, there really isn't no set time frame (like alliances which is min 20 turns). Breaking it early doesnt seem to help though.

Note well that when you act like that, for mutual protection pacts, you're ally will still remain "gracious" towards you, and then just maybe, backstab you horribly (it's happened a few times). Best thing to do is go to war and wait until your ally reaches peace... or conquer if you have the means and the timing is right