Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

MAP: World Map Using a Modified Mercator Projection

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • MAP: World Map Using a Modified Mercator Projection

    This is the polished version of the map I've been creating. I've played from several places on the map and am happy that the "imbalances" I've found are realistic. If you start in Europe, expect a crowded brawl for space. Starts in China, would be more calm, but also more isolated from potential trade partners. Starts in Britain or Japan are about the toughest, due to isolation, nearby competitors and limited space. I'm only attaching one version of the map (which can be modified for Antarctic starting positions if you want to use a save game editor). Hopefully, a patch will answer the problem of placing civ starts. (-11 Dec- or maybe not. . . )

    These are the characteristics of this map:

    a) Map is 180 by 180 tile map. Based on that and the amount of resources, it's appropriate for 16 civs. Eight civs gives a little more breathing space if you wind up in Europe though. Barbarian activity is "raging".

    b) Starting positions: I have 16 places that correspond to "actual" starting locations for the 16 civs, but I have added seven others that help spread out the starts. These seven locations are: US Pacific Northwest, Coastal California, Argentina, Mali, Indus River valley, Moscow, and an additional China location (Yangtze River).

    c) With very few exceptions, the coastlines were done rigorously on a square-by-square basis to match a Mercator map that I modified, by compressing the high latitudes, and expanding the tropics and northern temperate latitudes. There is also a slight east-west stretch in Europe to make it more recognizable and to make room for the five civ starting locations that are in Europe. Overall, this means a reasonably recognizable map that has more "playing area", and less useless arctic tundra, and polar oceans. Because the map does not include anything north of 75 north, I made it impossible for ships to circumnavigate the globe in the Arctic - true to the real world; there is no "Northwest Passage". The map also does not cover anything south of latitude 60 south.

    d) Topography and bathymetry are based on maps in atlas', and from http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/fliers/94mgg01.html
    Even if you don't like the civ map attached, visit the NGDC site!

    e) Forest cover is primeval. Europe, Brazil, and the Eastern US have far more of their primeval forest than in any other map I've seen. This is important because these thick forests delay the eventual high fertility of Europe/Eastern US. The civs that start in the Nile, Indus and Fertile Crescent have a huge early advantage because of that delay. The disadvantages of those river valleys are that they are surrounded by marginal land. You will notice that there are opportunities for "canal-cities" that allow ships to cross at Panama and at Port Sa'id, Egypt. I've also included several islands that are not exactly large, but might be considered strategic (especially in the South Pacific).

    f) Resource distribution is based on information gathered from the net, including data from the United States Department of Energy (petroleum, coal, and uranium). Some resources are spread out generously, and others are very regional and limited. Based on my test games, the ancient strategic resources (horses and iron may be slightly difficult to get in ancient times, but by medieval times, you should have them pretty well secured (no horses in Americas - the horse culture of the plains Indians did not appear until the 1800's). Saltpeter might be too plentiful, but the era that saltpeter is needed has tended to be short. Coal is plentiful, but "clumpy" in distribution. The modern strategic resources (oil and uranium) are not nearly as plentiful as coal, and they are not widely distributed. Luxury resources are of variable scarcity, and distribution. There is for instance enough wine, spice, and fur for 16 civs, but not enough ivory, silk, or incense.

    g) There are still no "goodie huts". This does punish the civs with the expansionist quality, but I just don't like the idea of technology "appearing". There are still ample reasons to explore - you still want to find your neighbors and beat them to the choice colonization places. Another problem is that a civ located on Japan or the British Isles will lose out almost entirely on goodie huts.

    Note: I have included the documentation in Microsoft Word and the Excel file that contains some of the USDOE data I used for oil and uranium.

    If you want to modify the starting locations, to have correct locations for instance, you need to add sixteen tundra islands to the map in the Antarctic, start a game, save it immediately, and then use one of the save game editors posted here on the Files forum. The coordinates for the civ locations are on the first spreadsheet of the Excel file. Its tedious to correct the starting locations, but not hard.

    Lastly, if you have comments feel free to send them to me either directly by email or posted here. I will seriously consider all comments. However, I really want to retain control over the form of the map on this thread. As I work on this map, I will keep editing, albeit slowly sometimes and reposting the edited map with the documentation.

    Thanks.
    Size of file is 94Kb.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by GeorgeG; December 11, 2001, 16:10.
    Over the hills and far away,
    Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
    King George commands and we obey,
    Over the hills and far away.

  • #2
    Nice map.

    Some comments tho :

    1) Western africa is really out of shape, it's not that 'squared'. (but I know it's hard to get it right on a map editor without a minimap, I know because I tried =) Furthermore, the whole northen africa is way too streched vertically, and not enough horizontally to the west. You should reduce it vertically, and that would allow more place to make europe a little bigger, spain especially. The reason is simple, playability =)

    2) Nice to see there are no useless antartica and not a lots of tundra isles to the north. However, it might be a good idea to remove the polar ice caps, it looks a little weird.

    3) You might have overdone the great lakes, trying to make it possible to get ships there... frankly, it's a little useless. The St-Lawrence should become a river near Quebec, it extends too far south-west. Nice to see you added Newfoundland, but you should also add Nova Scotia too, it looks a little bit weird without it.

    4) Too much grassland on the US west coast in my opinion, especially south.

    5) Amazonia is way too small... most of southern America should be filled with tropical forest. When you look at it today, it might look similar to your map, but we did a lot of lumberjacking there, and I mean a lot in the past centuries. And I also don't know why people always put a lot of grasslands there, it's mostly plains on the easern side of the Andes.

    6) About resources... I started in south africa, and now got all the southern part of africa under my control, while egypt have all the desert =) The thing is, I have about 30 supply of ivory... I mean, sure, there are a lot there, but maybe you have overdone resources a little. You should at least cut them in half. Remember that, there are 16 players, so you shouldn't really have more than that amount in a certain area. The one who control south africa should probably be able to supply the world in Ivory, BUT, not another planet too =) Spices in indonesia are great tho, so while they are plenty, they are all on different mostly small island, so that is ok.

    7) Overall, the map is balanced in my opinion, with a slight exception(below). The 3 civs that started in america were behind in the tech tree when I encountered them, which is realistic, without trading with the rest of the world. Persia, who started at the Babylonian location, have a big hulking city there, lots of wonder and it was the first 12 city. Also a good thing, it's really advantageous to start there.

    8) The only real imbalance is southern africa. Too easy to extend, and you have egypt to protect you from the rest of the world =) I have at least one source of EVERY luxury except silk. Too powerful in my opinion, I can extend at will and I don't have any happiness problem, even in Monarch. I know you've already put a lot of barbarians there, but maybe you should put less, because they area piece of cake to beat even with a warrior and give 25 gold, which is a lot when you kill like... a couple dozen of camps =) A lot of gold early is very good when you finally meet others and just buy every tech and all, but a little unbalance. There are probably a lot more camps elsewhere, but they aren't alone to claim them, in south/central africa, I am all alone, egypt is busy dealing with all the european an middle eastern civs. I'm not even REXing =)

    Ok... probably a lot more, but that just my first gaming session and it's only about 1000 AD, hehe. Nice work.
    -Karhgath

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks a bunch for taking the time to type out your comments, especially the imbalance with southern Africa. I struggle with that area due to three issues 1) South Africa (and west Africa) are resource-wise very wealthy regions, 2) much of that wealth is not accessible without modern mining techniques, and 3) the Zulus are the only represented civ from that area.

      The only competition for the Congo Basin and East Africa is the Egyptian starting civ (who are hemmed in by some very poor areas such as the Nubain Desert). My first move in trimming the strength of the area is to remove two of the six southern Africa gold tiles in the area - seem about right for playability? South Africa still should be very wealthy.

      Regaring the ivory - I had 12 ivory in Africa and one in India. (I'll delete four of them to make the global supply only sufficient for eight civs - I'm deleting ivory from tiles 89,141; 94,124; 93,105; and 90,112) Ivory is now rarer than silk.

      As you bring up the barbarian issue, I think the map needs the barbarian activity raised to "raging". I did notice that I was sending chariots out early to try and grab the camps (I've started in Italy, Greece and Fertile Crescent starting locations so far). There should be a more substantial dark side to having all those barbarians to oneself. I wanted the camps there to make the Congo and west Africa harder to colonize - too bad its not working. (I've deleted camps at 68,98; 70,100; 71,101; 76,100; 84,108; 88,90; 83,105; and 90,108 91,129; 89,121 - the equivalent of 500 gold if you were getting all of them)
      It would still make sense to have a competing civ. I know that West Africa certainly had them (Kingdom of Mali).

      Regarding:
      -the shape of west Africa - its a result of the north-south extension in the tropical and northern temperate latitudes. This would be a substantial change. Europe would be stretched south. I probably won't go there - the Sahara should be hard to cross anyway.

      -Nova Scotia, a matter of moving four forest tiles south east - and leaving one in place (move 42,40; 43,39; 43,37; and 44,38 southeast). Two forest tiles (36,38; and 37,37) and some river can convert the St Lawrence to river from seaway. Grudgingly I admit that it should be impassable for battleships/carriers etc.

      -Extent of Amazon rain forest (Major revision: extended south and east to try and reflect pre-Columbian times). Brazil is now largely covered in rain forest - should significantly slow down development, but that's accurate. Were the highlands of eastern Brazil covered in rainforest? Now only southern part of Brazil is plains (the part that is east of Bolivia). Some coastal areas of eastern Brazil were left as grassland to allow a foothold.

      -grassland in southern California - yes, it looks like I need fewer floodplains, and more hills in the Colorado River area, other than near Yuma AZ, the agriculture is limited. (Turned 16,62; 19,61; 18,62; 20,62; 18,64; 18,66 to hills; Delete Rio Grande River from between tiles 21,76 and 22,66. Remove wheat from 17,59, turn to plains) This leave two floodplain tiles near Colorado River and reduces central valley of California's food production slightly. Central Valley of California is still a major food production area.

      -polar icecaps - I hadn't even thought about that. Good point, and an easy toggle.

      -Note that this week, I may not get back to editting this map much!

      -per Mark's reminder: the updated map file has been moved to the first post. Sorry about that Mark. Just learning how to post!
      Last edited by GeorgeG; November 19, 2001, 09:47.
      Over the hills and far away,
      Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
      King George commands and we obey,
      Over the hills and far away.

      Comment


      • #4
        please update the attachment on your first post, dont have more than one version of your file in your thread

        thanks
        Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
        Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
        giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

        Comment


        • #5
          Really good map, but...

          IMHO, Siberia and Central Asia should have much more rivers.

          And what about the location of the Russian capital?

          Is it St.Petersburg?

          Comment


          • #6
            One more thing... try working the ocean floor to add seas, underwater hills, deep chasms, etc. You haven't touched the ocean at all. I just realized that when I was trying ot reach australia with a caravel =) I found a great map with a very detail ocean floor, but a crappy terrain placement. Your map with a good ocean floor would be really, really great =)
            -Karhgath

            Comment


            • #7
              Redfox74,
              Since your location is listed as Siberia! . . .
              -Which rivers would you recommend I add?
              -I know I forgot the Amur, but my atlas shows a maze of rivers from the Urals to the Pacific. . . What's that? 2500-3000 km?
              I currently have the Volga, some of the Ob, the Angara-Yenisey, and the Lena.
              -What rivers do you think would be important in central Asia?
              -St. Petersburg is the starting location on the map for the Russian player (No I haven't changed the city list of name, but soon, I will be using JimmyH's clever save game editor to make a genuine world map scenario). I was rubbed into the dirt the night before last as the French IN FRANCE, Germans, English, Romans wanted my land - I was in their way (Kind of a partitioning of Poland theme). I digress. I made St. Petersburg the Russian capital, because that's where it was during Catherine's reign. It also allows easier access to the Baltic (though it cramps the Germans some).
              -I "plan" (after I tweak the map some more) to produce some Regent-level maps with the corrected start locations for several civs. I still think I need to revisit the distribution of some resources though. So far South Africa has been tagged as too sweet a spot. Anyone else noticing anything that is too harsh or too good? I tried playing as the English (again, after using JimmyH's editor), and found the islands to be pretty bleak (after I cleared the forests, I found the production to be abysmal at the starting location I fell behind the other 15 civs pretty quickly - a lot of good a scout does without mapmaking). So far I've tried the Babylonian, Roman, Greek, French, and English starting locations but have only played into the early Middle Ages.

              Kargath,
              True, the ocean floor is fairly dull in this map. Other than the Grand Banks off Newfoundland, I didn't touch the ocean. You should be able to get to Australia from Indonesia safely, but I'm thinking that Pacific crossings should be chancy in a caravel (Unless you can safely hop from Easter Island, to Pitcairn, etc). Other than seamounts, and extended continental shelf, I don't think anything else on the ocean floor should be shown. The Mid-Atlantic Ridge is so deep that despite it being mountainous, you would never know it was there without sonar - or a lot of rope for the soundings!
              Well, I'm back to my playing. . . .er playtesting of the French with the corrected starting locations (and using the fix where the AI doesn't have everyone else's phone number). Have I thanked JimmyH enough for the save game editor? Its a bit of work, but worth the effort. I promise to get some things posted after I do a bit more tinkering. Uhhuh . . just. . . . one. . . . more. . . . turn.
              Over the hills and far away,
              Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
              King George commands and we obey,
              Over the hills and far away.

              Comment


              • #8
                One other thing to consider: place civ-starting locations for places where civs started but that weren't included in the game. Notably, these could include the Carthage (which would alleviate that African dead-zone) or Mongolia (due to the amount of room in Central Asia).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Two saved game starts (Warlord level)

                  This attachment contains two saved games at 4000BC, on Warlord Level. The starting locations have been corrected. (Ok, I'm having a little trouble thriving into the Middle ages as France!). Both are on my draft map, which I'm not with done with, but the French and Babylonian start locations seem to be working out pretty well.

                  Because there is still some oddness to JimmyH's save game editor, you won't see any of the map at first. Since you can't see, first suggested moves are: French, move your worker NE, this will be a grassland-wine tile. Babylon, move worker East, or NW, this will be a wheat tile. Both settlers are already in optimal position for cities so you could also just hit B for the settler.

                  If I ever figure out how, I'll post a screenshot . . . .
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by GeorgeG; November 28, 2001, 09:54.
                  Over the hills and far away,
                  Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
                  King George commands and we obey,
                  Over the hills and far away.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi GeorgeG,

                    If you want my opinion:

                    - I would add Amur and its tributary Ussuri to mark Russian border in the far east;
                    - Add Kolyma (thinking about GULag, I think about Kolyma);
                    - Add Viluy and Aldan to Lena;
                    - Add Lower Tunguska to Yenisey;
                    - Make Ob longer and add Irtysh;
                    - Add Syr-Daria and Amu-Daria in Central Asia (very important for irrigation there).

                    Siberia is about 10 mln skm. I would say 5000- 7000 km from Urals to the Pacific.
                    Last edited by redfox74; November 29, 2001, 17:40.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Grr. . . Is it something simple that I'm missing when I try to post an image file?
                      Last edited by GeorgeG; December 1, 2001, 19:15.
                      Over the hills and far away,
                      Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
                      King George commands and we obey,
                      Over the hills and far away.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've updated the map once more on the first post. It is basically in its final form, and ready for "peer review".

                        Changes to the map in the 01 Dec 2001 version are:
                        -added seven player starting locations. These seven locations have been added to help space things out when civs are being randomly placed. If you don't like them, the're easy enough to remove. I didn't include an Antarctic start map - its easy enough to make one if you want to. I guess I'm counting on the patch fixing the player start locations.
                        -Some of the rain forest in south Brazil is now represented as forested plains. Deforested, it will not make as much food now.
                        -removed some wine tiles (from South Africa, and one wine from west coast of South America). These areas already had substantial luxuries locally present.
                        -modified ocean floor/continental shelf. Now represented various seamounts in the Pacific and some of the continental shelf, I didn't even know existed. The Caspian Sea is salty, only had to add one "sea" tile.
                        -modified terrain in Sahara (added many hills, even if they are only giant star dunes, it looks cool).



                        ----------------------------
                        Changes to the map in the 24 Nov 2001 version were:
                        -added Asian rivers recommended by Redfox74.
                        -updated and added additional documentation in the form of excel data tables that contain data from the USDOE that I used to help decide where uranium and petroleum reserves should be located. The files also have coal data, but I was fairly happy already with the distribution of coal in the first map.
                        -also have a html file that has great detail on the history of saltpeter and guano - I greatly increased the abundance of saltpeter after reading this.
                        -there are now two map files, the first of which has 16 "correct" starting locations (that civs are randomly assigned to); the second is a map that starts everyone out on tundra islands in the Antarctic, and you use the save game editor to move all units to their "correct" locations (the correct locations are included on the first of the Excel data tables).
                        -I haven't worked on the ocean floor yet. That seems like a good "finishing touch".
                        Over the hills and far away,
                        Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
                        King George commands and we obey,
                        Over the hills and far away.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X