Strategic Resources -- Need Help

[StarGazer]

In my first game of Civ3, I just got Replaceable Parts, which allows the rubber resource to appear on the map.

The problem is that even though about 20 percent of my land is forests and jungle, no rubber appeared.

Since I sincerely doubt that any other of the seven civs will give me rubber in trade and since I must have it for any kind of equality, much less advance, in development, I am tempted to end this game (I'm at 1900). Or perhaps I could load the preceding saved turn (1899) and see whether the computer creates rubber for me this time.

I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.

[WyattMax]

2 Solutions

A) If you are military weaker than they are, give them what they want, build
your strength, drop a invasion force
where the rubber city is, and conquer it.

B) You are military stronger than they are, send an invasion force and conquer it directly.

[StarGazer]

Originally posted by WyattMax
2 Solutions

A) If you are military weaker than they are, give them what they want, build
your strength, drop a invasion force
where the rubber city is, and conquer it.

B) You are military stronger than they are, send an invasion force and conquer it directly.

Thanks, WyattMax. Good ideas, but not my style. I was so enthusiastic about Civ when it first came out about 10 years ago because, unlike most strategy computer games, it allowed me to win without having to kill, kill, kill. I loved buying up cities without having to slaughter 10,000 of the civilian population in the process (which a military conquest would cause). Slipping diplomats/spies in behind enemy lines was so exciting! Sneaking a spy and a military unit into the center of a civ's territory, buying off the target city, establishing an airport, and flying in troops and other spies in order to buy off even more cities was for me a thrilling way to "encourage" another civ to join mine. No bloodshed. I loved it. Civ3 is such a disappointment in this respect. It's a VERY different game from Civ2. All my favorite features have been removed. And if I can't buld a spaceship (because I lack rubber), then there is no sense in continuing.

Unlike the previous Civ games, Civ3 is definitely biased toward gamers who enjoy fighting. Even to speed up a Wonder, one has to go to war at some time during the game and continue fighting long enough to create a "Leader" from an Elite from a Veteran). And now I've just learned that in order to gain a strategic resource that you don't have, you have to go to war for it if no AI's willing to trade -- and even then, after 20 turns, if the trade agreement is not renewed and you're in the middle, say, of building a spaceship, you're screwed. Everything that you have spent HOURS working toward goes down the drain. Why, then, even aim for a peaceful goal in this game? They should have named the game "Conquest."

What I was wondering was whether I could reload the previous saved turn as many times as necessary in order to create a strategic resource that I needed. If that's not possible, then I'm giving this game away. The chances of reaching a peaceful goal in this game are so small as to be nonexistent and certainly not worth the gamble.

Enjoy!

Gordon

[Robert]

Since I sincerely doubt that any other of the seven civs will give me rubber in trade

Why do you doubt that ?
I've traded much strategic resources with the AI.
That's one of the core parts of the new game designs !

Otherwise search for the resources on the map and colonize them.

If they're already colonized, build a city next to the resource and start building culture generating improvements. When your cities culture is higher then the other's you'll push the borders and the resource will be yours !

Culture is SO important !

CyberShy

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by StarGazer


What I was wondering was whether I could reload the previous saved turn as many times as necessary in order to create a strategic resource that I needed. Gordon

No, the resources are not generated when you develop the ability to see them. They are always there, generated when the map is generated.

You do have several other options:

1) Pay through the nose for what you need. As long as they have a spare resource themselves, they will always trade it if you pay enough, unless they really don't like you. If you don't attack them (how you seem to be inclined anyway) and given them little gifts every few turns ("foreign aide"), they will sell to you at some price. You just might not like the price, but hey that's real life (Remember OPEC in the 1970's?).

2) As CyberShy wrote, conquer via culture instead of arms ("McDiplomacy"?).

3) Use the Editor to remove resource dependency from the things you want to build but can't. This may even work in your current game. There are three possibilities (I have not tested see how it really works):

a) Saved games just refer to a ".bic" file, either the generic one if you just started a game or the one for a scenario if you started the game via a scenario (remember, if you create a scenario without a map it will still create a random map every time you start the scenario). If this is how it actually works, you can edit the rules in the ".bic" file which applies to that saved game, then reload the saved game, and the new rules should then work in your saved game.

b) Saved games which are not from scenarios use the default ".bic" file freshly loaded when Civ3 is launched. If this is how it actually works, you can exit Civ3 and relaunch it after editing the rules, and then the new rules should work in your saved game.

c) Saved games include the rules settings under which the game was started, so there is no way a rules edit will affect an existing game. In this case, you need to start a new game after you edit the rules (perhaps also exiting & relaunching Civ3 so it will read your new rules) in order to play under your new rules.

4) Use the editor to greatly increase the frequency of occurence of each strategic resource you care about. I think if you play on "old" planets it also spreads the resources around (making it more likely that every civ will get one of each), while on "young" planets it clusters them together (making it more likely that one civ can corner the market on each resource and get to play OPEC). This, of course, only helps with new games.

5) Use the editor to create a custom map scenario (let it generate the map randomly if you like) and put one of each resource you care about near each starting location. Be sure there are at least as many starting locations as the number of civs you want in your game. If you think you can defend your capital, you should thus always have access to whatever you need no matter which starting location you get (scenarios at this time randomly assign civs to starting locations, you can't control it). If you are concerned about having seen the map, create several of these before you play any of them and name them something unmeanigful (like "hugemap-1.bic") - you'll soon forget which was which.

[DATarbell]

StarGazer, I am finding that I can play peacefully! Like you, I prefer the "building" aspects of the Civ series to the conquest aspects. I am dominating through technology and culture, have been successfully trading for resources when necessary, and loving it!

In my current game, the Romans attacked me without provocation, and in defending myself against them I took the "liberty" of procuring a few of their more valuable city locations. However, I felt "justified" in that they picked the fight and this was the natural outworking of "actions have consequences."

I am finding that the "limited resources" concept is one of the features that really enhances the "one more turn" flavor that Sid's games have become famous for, and one that I am thoroughly enjoying. It also seems entirely appropriate/realistic that these resources would not be "recognizable" until such time as they have significance.

[StarGazer]

Originally posted by CyberShy

I've traded much strategic resources with the AI.
That's one of the core parts of the new game designs !

Otherwise search for the resources on the map and colonize them.

If they're already colonized, build a city next to the resource and start building culture generating improvements. When your cities culture is higher then the other's you'll push the borders and the resource will be yours !

Thanks for the idea!

Intriguing but unfortunate is the fact which I just discovered that only ONE source of rubber exists in the entire world, in a Zulu tundra forest on a tiny island. Another two-square island -- fortunately, uninhabited -- exists just to the west. It's the only uninhabited area left. Although it's halfway around the world, I'm going to make an ocean dash for it with a settler, a worker, and two riflemen in one of my galleons accompanied by an ironclad. If I can pour money into the new town and build enough to expand the cultural area, maybe I can "persuade" the neighboring Zulu city of Mpondo (pop 2) to join my civ. Then since Zululand is a monarchy, propaganda is also an option (I just built an Intelligence Agency). Communist Babylonia, currently the leading civ, is at war with Zululand now (the only war going on) and is winning. If Bab gets that sole rubber resource, the rest of us civs are screwed, I guess, unless we all join together. Unfortunately, Bab was given a continent almost the size of Asia and rich in resources to develop in, so her development is more a matter of luck than skill. Any suggestions?

I created a huge world with 80 percent ocean and 20 percent land (archipelago), normal age, temperature, and climate -- my favorite mix in the other Civ games because it allowed me a long period of relatively peaceful development, plenty of time to explore with diplomats and explorers, and a heightened importance of the use of sea and air travel (I like ships and planes -- what can I say?). I guess that the 80/20 mix doesn't work so well in Civ3 because of the need for lots of land on which resources can appear: the more land, the more resources, I suppose.

[StarGazer]

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill


No, the resources are not generated when you develop the ability to see them. They are always there, generated when the map is generated.

Thanks, Bill, for this very helpful information!

You do have several other options:

1) Pay through the nose for what you need. As long as they have a spare resource themselves, they will always trade it if you pay enough, unless they really don't like you. If you don't attack them (how you seem to be inclined anyway) and given them little gifts every few turns ("foreign aide"), they will sell to you at some price. You just might not like the price, but hey that's real life (Remember OPEC in the 1970's?).

2) As CyberShy wrote, conquer via culture instead of arms ("McDiplomacy"?).

3)4)5) Use the editor...

Very, very helpful advice! Thanks! One question: The Civ3 manual doesn't say anything about an editor or how to use one. Where can I find out more about this?

[StarGazer]

Originally posted by DATarbell
StarGazer, I am finding that I can play peacefully! Like you, I prefer the "building" aspects of the Civ series to the conquest aspects. I am dominating through technology and culture, have been successfully trading for resources when necessary, and loving it!

Your reply is very encouraging. I appreciate it!

In my current game, the Romans attacked me without provocation, and in defending myself against them I took the "liberty" of procuring a few of their more valuable city locations. However, I felt "justified" in that they picked the fight and this was the natural outworking of "actions have consequences."

Yes, I, too, have no qualms about defending my territory against attack. In fact, I enjoy a good fight now and then, especially when it involves only military units. It's just that I won't invade another country without provocation (barbarian camps excepted). I always try to settle things peacefully first. It's the way I enjoy playing. If I wanted a rousing wargame, I would play something like Warcraft, not a Civ game.

Finding that the "limited resources" concept is one of the features that really enhances the "one more turn" flavor that Sid's games have become famous for, and one that I am thoroughly enjoying. It also seems entirely appropriate/realistic that these resources would not be "recognizable" until such time as they have significance.

I have to admit that when I discovered that a STRATEGIC resource could be absent from my civ's territory or could be used up after a number of turns, I felt something of a shock. Thus my earlier posts. Now that I've read some of the helpful replies, I have a better understanding of how this version of Civ works and how to play it.

Thanks again for your encouragment and help!

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by StarGazer
One question: The Civ3 manual doesn't say anything about an editor or how to use one. Where can I find out more about this?

When you installed the game, it should have added a folder to your start menu which contains a selection for the editor. In that, you can launch either the editor or the help file for the editor.

The editor ".exe" should be in the main Civ3 directory. Can't remember what it's called (I'm writing this on my work machine, which has NT4 and thus can't have Civ3 on it ).

The files you open (using the editor's file menu) have the extention ".bic". The ".bic" file in the main Civ3 directory is the one used by the game any time you use the "new game" function from the game's main menu - if you plan to mod it I suggest you back up the original first. The ones for scenarios are in the "scenarios" subdirectory, and can be chosen if you use the "scenario" function from the game's main menu.

There should be more rubber than 1 in the whole world - you may just be missing it somehow. As I recall, the editor help says if you have the frequency of occurance set for 160, then in a 16 civ game there will be one of that resource per civ (not necessarily one in each civ's territory, as you know). I think the worst default setting of any resource is 100 for oil, which (if I understand correctly) means there will be 10 oil resources in a 16 civ game. To have only one rubber in the whole game, you'd need a setting of 10, again if I understand correctly how it works.

In my second game, I had a huge archipelego world, moded so huge = 256x256, with the normal (medium) settings for temperature, moisture & planet age. I used the editor to set the frequency of occurance of all stategic resources to 200, and set the probability of disappearance to 0 (if one disappears supposedly it reappears someplace else, but in my first game I had a problem with an iron resource disappearing right after I went to enormous trouble to fould a colony on the far end of the world from me to get it, so I decided for game 2 I wouldn't put up with that again). In that game (the second one), I never really had any problem with any resources. I got to the year 1700, and was very ahead in tech - I was fighting a war using Infantry & Artillery, and never had any resource up through oil not turn out to be present in my territory when it first appears. Unfortunately, in 1700 the game crashes during the AI's move - the three theories are (a) it is the 256x256 (suugested by Firaxis), (b) there is a bug whereby a certain square can crash if anybody tries to plant a city there (this has been reported by somebody who saw this with the same square whether he or the AI planted the city), and (c) I swapped colors between the Germans & Americans so I could use the Americans to make my own custom civ - I like dark blue but wanted the Germans in the game (suggested by Firaxis that there may be a problem with changing Civ colors).

In my third (current) game, I went back to the default rules (as regards map size & resource frequency & civ colors, anyway). In this game, the setup is huge (180x180 default) pangea, hot, dry and old (I'm playing as the Egyptians so I wanted a deserty world). Techwise, I'm about where I was in game 2 but its over 100 years later. Anyway, I've had exactly one of every resource in my territory so far. Luxury resources seem to come one per place, whereas on the medium aged planets they were in huge clusters so one civ gets wads of extras to trade and nobody else gets any (in the first game, the Americans sat on a cluster of iron like that). So, I think just the planet age helps increase the chances you won't get shut out even at the default resource rules settings. I think it also helps to try to build a reasonably large territory with a lot of diversity in terrain types (the old planet breaks up the terrain types into smaller chunks and help in that regard).

[DATarbell]

StarGazer, one more thought...

I found it extremely distressing when a hard-found, harder-fought-for strategic resource was "used up" one turn! However, I found that this was one of the few remaining "chance" elements of the game that may well turn out differently if you simply load a saved game from two turns ago and move forward afresh. (The outcome of other "chance" elements seems only effected by introducing other chance elements, thereby changing the order. Perhaps that is what I am causing when I go back two turns on a "disappearing" resource.)