MOD: The BALANCER

[Badtz Maru]

I did the same thing with Ivory in one of my mods (with some changes, I made War Elephants MORE powerful and gave them a bombard ability, just to do something neat) but I changed it back because I don't think the AI adjusted to it right - I played a game where I had a lot of Ivory and the Indians didn't, but it wouldn't allow me to trade it to them, it didn't even show up on my diplomacy screen as a strategic resource (though I got the message you get when you obtain a strategic resource when my workers built roads to it). I also decided that it wasn't really fair to have a strategic resource that only one civ could make use of - I was considering making the War Elephants available to everyone and figuring out some way of making it up to the Indians when I discovered it was buggy to change it.

I do like the idea of making the War Elephants 3.3.1 and available much earlier, though, I'll probably do that in my current mod.

[Elucidus]

Monkspider,

Jungles are 9 turns in the last file you sent me. And Mountains were 2 (+1 with mines). I think they should be +2 with mines personally.

Also Classless society was giving +2 pop instead of +1 when a city grows (the effect of longevity), as well as the described bonus. I don't think this was intentional, that's why I point it out.

[Elucidus]

Monkspider,

I am uploading the files for 1.5 now. You can download them and incorporate them with your bic. The civilopedia contains information for all of the changes/additions that I am aware of to date.

Let me know how things go and send me a copy of your newest bic file so I can ensure the latest and greatest info in the civilopedia. Also when do you think we will have a finalized 1.5 bic? I would like to post it to my website before I lose connectivity.

To everyone else,

As I noted above, I will be moving this weekend so will be out of touch for a while starting pretty soon. I wish I had more time in the last week or so to better playtest and balance version 1.5. I had limited time; I chose to work on the Civilopedia instead. I hope this was the right decision and that I did not let you guys down in that respect.

I am afraid we went a little crazy with this version, but we shall see. As always please feel free to send us your comments, suggestions, gripes, moans, etc...

Also when it is released...If you find something that seems broken. Check the civilopedia, under Game Concepts. You will see a section named Balancer Mod Version 1.5. This section lists all of the known issues and contact information.

I hope you enjoy it and have a good weekend.

[monkspider]

Hey Luc,
Thanks for all your help, but I am having some trouble downloading your zip file. I am following the link in the email you sent me. I'm not sure what the trouble is. Also, I have made a few last minute changes, but I should have a finished .bic file tonight. I may have to do a few minor changes to your civlopedia to reflect a few minor things.
One question, should I rename the civlopedia changes in my version of the .bic to reflect you changes in capitalization and so forth or anything of that matter you may have made?

[monkspider]

nevermind, i have it working now.
I'll send you the new .bic file as soon as it is finished

[Elucidus]

The url I sent you is case specific. It should all be lower case.

All of the civilopedia entries need to be like this as far as capitalization: AAAA_Aaaaaaaa

This of course is only for new stuff that we have added.

I will probably include a version on the first or so line of the civiopedia to avoid any confusion. You don't need to make any changes to it if you only changed unit or terrain stats.

[Cian McGuire]

and I decreased the time to clear jungles from 10 to 5. (Forests take 10 turns, but they also give you 10 shields, so I figured this was fair).
-I like this idea, but Jungles were already reduced from 20 (!) turns (I believe) to 10. In any event, i hate Jungles but I may wait until we can give Jungles lumber bonuses.

You figure that burning straight through jungle is such a big topic in environmental issues nowadays they'd be easier to clearcut. I'd say drop it to 5

Also, good luck with the move, Elucidus- I hope it all goes well

[monkspider]

aaaahhh!! I LOVE what you have done Eluc! You are the greatest partner in this mod-making buisness a guy can have. I love the new dinopark.pcx file...BRILLIANT!

[monkspider]

Okay, I have found out what is wrong with the Reichstag wonder, as well as the Classless society wonder actually. Apparently the ability to add the wonders or small-wonders to every city is broken right now. Which is what the Reichstag did, it added the equivalent of a miltary academy to every city. I tried to get around this by creating a random unit that has the attributes of "army" but there is also no way to give government specific units yet, so if I created such a unit, it would be available to everyone.
Any ideas on what the Reichstag should do now?
Let's hear it directly from the people. Hopefully we can get this rectified by Friday.

[Elucidus]

Monkspider,

The Classless Society seemed to work very well. It starts working the turn after it was built. I had cities everywhere (probably 50 or 60 scattered all over a large map) and if I bought courthouses and police stations, and had the classless society built I had baout 40-60% corruption and waste in those cities. Which was very good, compared to the one shield wonders that most conquered cities become. This seemed to make those cities marginally useful, but still costly to get to that point.

NOTE: that I had added 25% to the max cities values for each map size. So that had an impact. A large map had a max cities value of 40, I believe.

And thank you Cian we may very well need the luck.

Also I did not know anything about clearing jungles in the real world, so maybe...

[Yaga]

Gov't Spec. Wonders

Hrm...

Personally, I'm feeling inclined against government-specific Great Wonders:
- You must be in the gov't to build: if two civs discover, say Democracy on the same turn, and both then switch to Democracy in the hopes of building the Statue of Liberty, the civ with the Religious trait is only going to have one turn of anarchy, as opposed to a non-Religious Civ having two or three (or more) turns of anarchy. This effectivly gives the Religious civ a 2-3 turn head start on building the wonder.
- Switching out of a gov't doesn't negate the effects of the gov't specific wonder. Somehow I find the image of a Civ benefiting from a Classless Society, Statue of Liberty and Reichstag all at once to be a little too much...
- Presently, only the three modern gov'ts have their own wonder.
- The AI is programmed to "shun" specific gov'ts, meaning that while the human player playing the British may switch to Fasicm to build the Reichstag, the AI-controlled Britian, which shuns that Gov't, won't build it. At least, insofar as I understand 'shunning' in the game at present.

Mind you, I think they're a great idea, I just don't think that the current game code can support it. Personally, I believe that gov'ts should be able to build small wonders; a culture benefits greatly from its political past, regardless. More, I think each gov't should have it's own small wonder in order to balance the game more. Call me crazy, but unless I'm playing a Religious-trait Civ, I rarely switch from Republic to any modern gov't type - the game's just too close and I can't afford 3, 4 or 5 turns of anarchy when myself and the rest of the world discovers a Civ and all race to build the Wonder. (Which I probably won't get anyways...)

So I'd suggest having the Reichstag be a small wonder, probably one that either had a cumultive effect with Heroic Epic and/or addressed corruption; considering the propaganda machines of 40's Germany and Italy, and their deification of political figures, perhaps this would be appropriate?

As for the others
- How about "Royal Family" or "Summer Palace" for Monarchy (the raising of the Royal Linage to such high levels - increased luxuries? Increased trade? Happiness? Or hey, make the "Forbidden Palace" Monarchy only...
- "Roman Senate" for Republic - As the first representative gov't, the notion of a Republic did decrease corruption and provide many infrastructural improvements to Roman life. Would that it could provide a colosseum or courthouse to each city, but as that's not available, I'd again look at a small corruption benefit, or maybe some way to pay for units, increase worker productivity, etc.
- Ah, Despotism. It should have *something.* Afterall, it pretty much is the required gov't type for the whole of the first Age. Only thing I can think of is Xanadu, Kubla Khan's pleasure palace, or maybe Gilgamesh or Beowulf, a mini-heroic epic that expires with Monarchy?

You're smart kids, I'm sure you'll think of something

Actually, while I'm at it, a question about Wonders - Anyone know why you don't receive any culture from captured Wonders? In my present game I just captured Moscow, aquiring the Hanging Gardens and JS Bach's. While I get the Happy Faces, I don't receive any culture from them. At first I thought it was just because the city is in Resistance, but now the Resistance is over I still don't have culture from it. Built a temple, and I get culture from that. Captured Stalingrad, aquired the Lighthouse, same deal. Don't remember if this was in the original or not, or if it's a result of the modding. Any thoughts?

Looking forward to 1.5,
Yaga

[Elucidus]

Yaga,

You can move the gov specific wonders to another tech down the line. That would help it out pretty much. It would also balance out the fact that you just switched to a new government, you shouldn't be able to build a wonder right away that will help you enhance that government. Just my thoughts.

[monkspider]

Hey Yaga, you can definitely expect some gov't specific wonders for Monarchy and Republic tommorow.
One thing about government specific wonders is that I have tried to design them to be almost exclusively useful to the government that builds it. Obviously, Communism or Fascisim aren't going to benefit from the Statue of Liberty. While it's true the Reichstag (were it working) could be useful in any other government, it seems to benefit the miltary only Fascism the most.
I actually like your idea of government specifc small wonders, and that's what our situation of government specific wonders is likely to evolve into once we recieve more powerful editing tools.

[WesW]

Regarding Impi's: I just looked in the editor, and War Chariots cost 20, just like Impis and Spearmen. If you have changed the Chariot cost for the new version, I would recommend changing it back to 20.
As for Mountains, they still give +2 with mining, so that they give 4 shields when mined. I think this is fair since Hills give 3 shields and 1 food when mined.
Note: You may want to reduce the cost of Musketeers by 10, to 50.

Also, if a unit is wheeled, it cannot cross mountains or jungles without a road.

[gamecommander]

Re: Gov't Spec. Wonders

Originally posted by Yaga
- Ah, Despotism. It should have *something.* Afterall, it pretty much is the required gov't type for the whole of the first Age. Only thing I can think of is Xanadu, Kubla Khan's pleasure palace, or maybe Gilgamesh or Beowulf, a mini-heroic epic that expires with Monarchy?

I agree that despotism should get at least one gov-specific wonder. I cannot think of any specific structure that would work for this aside from Xanadu, as Yaga said. But, the wonder could be more of an event, like the "uniting of the clans" that was accomplished by Genghis Khan and attempted by William Wallace. That would offer some sort of Military and/or trade bonus I would say. Another possibility (maybe even as a gov-specific small wonder) is a sacrifice temple like the Aztecs and Mayans used. This could provide Military and/or happiness bonuses.

Keep up the good work guys!