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Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

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  • Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

    Please, PLEASE, P L E A S E, P L E A S E, open the format of saved games and maps! What is the point of keeping them secret? One cannot use them unless he or she purchase your copy of Civ3, right? Do you fear that I write my own Civ using your format design or what? Could you please at least give some good reasons for not opening the formats?

    It is a very principal question, it is about people's or and about you.

    I am very disappointed after reading the late threads of this forum. IMHO, the best scenario ever is Harland's Vikings. It is a piece of art, it really is.

    I wanted to improve it, to make it Middle Ages scenario instead of Vikings, that means, I wanted to:
    1) Eliminate historical inaccuraces (Riga and others);
    2) Make the time scale wider and month-based (it would make a loooong game, but that's exactly the effect I desired);
    3) Improve dramatically the importance of caravans (very little trade without them) and reduce their cost (to keep players busy);
    4) Make more civs, some quite small between great powers (Switzerland, Venice), actually, small is beautiful ;
    5) Use culture, leaders and other effects of civ3 that should improve it greatly.

    I almost started with 1-3 with civ2, but decided to wait till civ3 appears. Now I came to know that there is absolutely no way to make a scenario with civ3, there are even no flat maps! Could someone from Firaxis clear the waters and give us some hints about the time when scenario editors are going to be released? My hint to you is to open the formats -- there will be lots of tools around in some months, doing this, you could spear yourself of trouble of creating them. I am a software developer myself and I guess that I know what I am talking about.

    I am not asking you to make Civ an open-source project, I only ask you to open the formats. I think that it is not too much to ask. Creative community increases sharply the value of your product -- you should have lots of experience with that. I and many others are willing to work freely to increase the value of your product but you do not give us a chance to do so.

    I am looking forwards to your input -- thanks in advance.

  • #2
    I know the Main format used (BIC, but bellow that is local formats for each part, which I do not know yet.)
    Creator of the Civ3MultiTool

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gramphos
      I know the Main format used (BIC, but bellow that is local formats for each part, which I do not know yet.)
      We have to know how to add everything because that editor lets us to add nothing, right?

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      • #4
        Re: Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

        Originally posted by Kristjan
        Creative community increases sharply the value of your product
        Exactly right - I went and bough a copy of Civ 2 ToT a couple of weeks ago so I could play other peoples scenarios (admittedly ToT came on the cover of a magazine and cost $7.50, but the principle's the same )
        'Arguing with anonymous strangers on the internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous sixteen year olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.'
        - Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kristjan


          We have to know how to add everything because that editor lets us to add nothing, right?

          The funny thing is that when people whined and complained about a certain feature people told them they would be able to fix it with the editor. All the while Firaxis said nothing to the contrary!
          I don't do drugs anymore 'cause i find i can get the same effect by standing up really fast.

          I live in my own little world, but its ok; they know me here.

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          • #6
            Re: Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

            Originally posted by Kristjan
            Please, PLEASE, P L E A S E, P L E A S E, open the format of saved games and maps!
            Open the maps is OK, but saved games NO PLEASE, I can't imagine how many cheat tachtics could appear from this decision.

            The problem by opening the map kind is that probably is really similar to a sav file, FIRAXIS, what about using a compressor in-game to make the SAV files unreadable and smaller?
            Signature: Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts

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            • #7
              Re: Re: Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

              Open the maps is OK, but saved games NO PLEASE, I can't imagine how many cheat tachtics could appear from this decision.
              Do you mean multiplayer? In MP, principally there is no way to prevent cheating if host gets its crucial data (unit locations, battle outcomes etc) from clients, not the other way round -- all verification should be done by the host, not by the client. That will slow down the operations, of course, but I can see no other solution.

              In single human player games it does not really matter, does it?

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              • #8
                It was a stupid move to not include a cheat menu in the first place. They had very good reasoning for doing it in the first place. Not only would it allow for scenario editing, but it would also allow greater handicapping. Besides, who cares if people cheat?
                "The only dangerous amount of alcohol is none"-Homer Simpson

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                • #9
                  Open the maps is OK, but saved games NO PLEASE, I can't imagine how many cheat tachtics could appear from this decision.
                  The problem by opening the map kind is that probably is really similar to a sav file, FIRAXIS, what about using a compressor in-game to make the SAV files unreadable and smaller?


                  Do you work for Microsoft?
                  Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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                  • #10
                    Re: Re: Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

                    Originally posted by XarXo


                    Open the maps is OK, but saved games NO PLEASE, I can't imagine how many cheat tachtics could appear from this decision.

                    The problem by opening the map kind is that probably is really similar to a sav file, FIRAXIS, what about using a compressor in-game to make the SAV files unreadable and smaller?
                    Smaller, maybe; but making a file unreadable is next to impossible to accomplish: The game files for Westwood's Red Alert series uses encryption, but that's already been cracked; you can find editors to change the rules, graphics, you name it!
                    "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau

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                    • #11
                      Re: Re: Re: Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

                      Originally posted by CobraA1


                      Smaller, maybe; but making a file unreadable is next to impossible to accomplish: The game files for Westwood's Red Alert series uses encryption, but that's already been cracked; you can find editors to change the rules, graphics, you name it!
                      BUAHAHAHA. The encryption for Red Alert is so simple it's pathetic.

                      Say you had an 'A' in the unencrypted file. That would translate to a 'F' in the encrypted one.

                      Similarly, a 'B' would translate to a 'G', a 'C' to a 'H', etc.

                      Now even XOR encryption is more sophisticated than that!

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                      • #12
                        Saved games are already hacked for the greater good...

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                        • #13
                          People are going to cheat if they want to. My friend already has a trainer. Civ2 had a built in cheat mode, I rarly used it. Let the sissies eat there hearts out. Only true civ players don't cheat anyways. nuff' said.

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                          • #14
                            Too right mate! Good on ya.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Firaxis, PLEASE, open the formats! (Middle Ages)

                              Originally posted by Kristjan
                              Please, PLEASE, P L E A S E, P L E A S E, open the format of saved games and maps! What is the point of keeping them secret?
                              If they publish the file format, its much harder for them to upgrade it in the future.

                              If a bunch of people made a bunch of utilities that edited it, and Firaxis went and changed the file format and broke all the utilities, people would get upset.

                              That's one reason.

                              Give them time. After all, how long until Civ2 had a proper editor?

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