Need help with a monarch level game

[StoryTellerSJEM]

It is peculiar.

What's the latest patch I should have for the game?

[vmxa1]

C3 - 1.29f
PTW - 1.27F
C3C - 1.22

In C3C at 1.22 in the late game they will not give up techs at least not very often as you have seen. I am not sure why, but most of the ones they have are those that have units/wonders or govs. Those are the ones they hate to let go.

By the way, I did find out that you cannot steal any techs that you do not have the prereqs for. I thought I had done that, but was wrong.

[StoryTellerSJEM]

I'm not bothered that a civ holds out on giving techs. I do have a problem when I've razed ten cities and they won't give me refining but they'll give me cities and lots of gold.

I even have a bigger issue with the logic when they have one city left and would rather be totally destroyed than give me refining, esp after I've razed 15 of their cities.

That said, I'm removing the patch and just playing the original boxed set.

StoryTeller

[vmxa1]

i think they have to make that way to prevent what used to occur, where the player would just beat techs out of the AI endlessly.

This is even more so in any MP type of game, but they could have used a check for MP.

The game is just too broken without the patch for my taste with the gold bug and such.

[StoryTellerSJEM]

It costs anywhere from 3000 to 6000 GP to steal one lousy tech once you hit medieval technology or modern.

That amount of money could field me an army. In order to be waging war all the time I need to take over territories and beat things out of people.

If I can't beat tech out of people, it forces the player to not continuously wage war in order to get tech. Seriously, consistently stealing tech doesn't make economic sense.

I have not played C3C . .. heard armies can pillage which is good . .. also like that the patches let you abandon cities but it really isn't worth it for reasons stated above.

If I become peaceful and techy, maybe I'll do it.

StoryTeller

[inca911]

Your poor reputation in the game might be the reason they won't give any tech. I had similar issues until I made keeping a clean rep a priority.

[StoryTellerSJEM]

Really? I didn't realize that.

[inca911]

Originally posted by StoryTellerSJEM
Really? I didn't realize that.

It's hare to quanitify, but perhaps others have similar experiences of bad reps giving no tech trades and good reps making tech trades more possible. I think it might be like gpt. Assuming you have a bad rep, once you have a deal in place that is acceptable, if you then add 1 gpt, the AI will not accept the deal.

Keeping a clean rep on higher levels is no longer optional for me, it's a requirement. At least until I'm ready to destroy all the remaining civs. Waging a clean war against a civ also doesn't result in a big hit, unless you're razing cities.

[Golden Bear]

Yep. Clean rep is almost a necessity to me as difficulty goes up. Easier to make deals, less likely to be ganged up on - the whole thing. When your rep gets bad enough it can seem almost impossible to make any kind of deal.

Read the thread about how to win Diplo on Diety level for clear explanation of how to do this.


Golden Bear

[StoryTellerSJEM]

I'll have to watch that then. I tend to raze cities, unless they're small b/c I typically can't hold them. It's easier for me to raze them and plant a new settler there.

How much does that bring down my rep?

GB,

Thanks. What's the link? There are twenty billion forum posts here.

StoryTeller

[StoryTellerSJEM]

Update

So I put the current game on hold b/c it turns out I need to get several more techs. I also got rid of the patch b/c I'm still learning the nuances and putting the patch in the middle of my game w/ the Germans screwed things up (i.e. couldn't get tech even if I beat the crap out of them and cavalry don't always retreat).

At this point, I'm not sure how to win the game although I get the feeling it's still winnable.

Any thoughts?

Here's a new game . .. monarch level . .. I'm the Aztecs as usual and now I'm working at keeping my agreements. Still raze cities b/c I tend to lose them if they're 3 or larger. Easier to raze and put a settler in it.

There are A LOT of civs in this one. Something like 12. I'm used to about 7.

I'm bordered to the north by the Russians who I beat up pretty well. I have about 35 cities and they have less than 10. To the south are the Americans, who I beat up pretty well . .. they have about 12 cities.

Japanese were wiped out early on and gave me a leader to create the Great Library which helped quite well for a period of time.

Also to the south are the Chinese who have about 5-7 less cities than me and are a royal pain b/c of their rider units. We're slugging it out in the jungles and only my knight armies are really able to defeat them one for one.
Seven more turns until military tradition and then my cavalry should decimate them. I'll also take more borders from the Russians.

Once the Chinese got their riders I knew it was going to get ugly, so, I made alliances w/ the Americans and Russians to attack them (i.e. we're all on the same continent). They allied with the Persians who declared war on me and did trade embargoes with the Germans.

Egyptians and Indians and Romans staying out of it so far. Germans joined trade embargo with Persians but that only lost me 8gp per turn.

British joined me against the Chinese. Zulu are doing nothing. Greeks are out of it, too, as are the Babylonians and French.

BTW, Germans, Indians and Zulu were put in later so they're behind and I sell them old tech for gold.

I'm at 100% science and I still make +330 GP simply from trading my many luxuries and resources.

Any thoughts? I'll put a map in the next post.

StoryTeller

[StoryTellerSJEM]

Here it is. Still don't know how to just copy the map part so I can blow it up. I'm on the left . .. dark green.

[inca911]

Sounds like you are in a position to change to Republic but are electing to stay in Monarchy even with a solid luxury/marketplace base. As a test case, I recommend you make the change in a game parallel to your current game and evaluate your current Monarchy game vs. a Republic game branch. I'm going to guess you'll move from 8-10 turns to research a tech down to 4-5. The only way to know for sure in your game is to make the change and measure it. With 3-4 luxuries and markets in my larger cities, I jump to Republic ASAP and often only make this one government change.

Forgot to mention:
You're at 100% science AND you have the Great Library? Why not go to Republic, slid to zero science, and rushbuy a dominating army? With this many civs, you're likely better off owning your own island and letting them do the research for you. You can catch up in tech running a deficit in gold after the GL expires.

[StoryTellerSJEM]

I'll try Republic. Never needed it in the lower games b/c I just overran everyone . .. even w/ the largest world possible . .. communism was a pain b/c I couldn't use gold to rush things but I may do that now as I may need the gold to steal.

Oh, GL expired several turns back and my sci meter was at 0% then. Just got military tradition which should give me an edge for this continent.

Also, a lot of my previous games only got up to infantry and artillery. Rarely tanks. I suspect this game will go all the way to nukes and whatever is beyond so not sure what the strategies are when we have bombers, nukes, mech inf and parachuters.

Thanks,

StoryTeller

[StoryTellerSJEM]

Also, what tips for waging war as a Republic? Trying to keep a good rep now and incite other civs to attack me first.

Thanks,

StoryTeller