the restart

[Mace]

I don't re-load the 4000BC save. I always do a 4000BC save in case I want to re-play the entire game from start, but not to re-do the first 40 turns...

I have been known to restart, if I get a really bad starting location, or bad luck with barbs, or something along those lines...just so its a fun game for me. Sometimes starting in mountains and jungles is fun, but sometimes not.

[cousLee]

Currently, the English are building the ToA, and the only way I can start on it quickly is to trade Lit for Poly. Also, the Pyramids might trigger a GA for indust/rel/agri civs. the ToA is rel only, and the babs are a rel civ. was not sure if it would trigger a GA or not. So I tested it to see if it would trigger a GA (with reloading the previous trade save in mind). Indeed, the ToA does not trigger a GA, but as soon as it was built the brits started on the GL. Given the choice, the ToA wiuld be the better wonder, esp considering the free culture bump to every new city founded, and as I am still expanding, this is a bonus I can not ignore. if I lose the GL, so be it. I could also let the ottomans have Lit and let them and the english race for it. The ottomans are between the english and myself, so if they did complete it first, i could take it from them. I don't think they have poly, but will have to check that again, as I am sure they would start the GL (keep it close to home).

ToA VS GL....... great strategy debate there.

As for using up the SGL before elite battles, that is not a factor. AFAIK, you can still get a MGL if you have a SGL, but not visa-versa. Once you have a MGL, you can not get any more leaders of any flavor until the MGL is used (which would be quickly anyway).

As for a scientific age, would that not be MUCH better once I am out of despotism, and after I have expanded and grown my cities? The SGA is an increase of currently produced beakers, and frankly, right now I am not producing enough imo to warrent using a sgl for that.

As for not selling my currently built temples, I understand the reasoning for that, but being a rel civ, they are cheap enough to build. And I might need the gold in the meantime. Esp if I let one of the other civs build the GL, I will have to continue driving science.

Which brings up another question of persuit. Should I aim for monarchy or republic........ They both have their own benefits. Although the GQB(garrison quell bonus) under monarchy might be really needed once the ToA becomes obsolete.

Thanks for the replies, a good discussion thread is as fun as the game being talked about. Hey, if anyone wants me to upload the 4000bc save so you can try your hand at this map, it would not be a problem.

[Vince278]

I like playing a little to ensure I don't have a bad starting position. If that happens I'll restart.

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Would not Scientific Age be worth it?

No, the Scientific Age does not work at all. It changes the display, but if you watch closely each turn, you'll see it takes just as long to reserach the next tech.

[joncnunn]

You've already built the Pryamids. ToA is a strict subset of the traights the Pryamids are, so building the ToA will not trigure your GA no matter who your playing.

To get your GA from wonder combos, it's whenever you build a wonder it checks to see if you now own wonders representing all your traights.

Note that ToA in the epic is only really worth going after when you have a SGL and can build it for free. 500 shields for a wonder that expires with Education is just too much. 0 shields though changes the equation completly.

Selling temples also would result in the 1000 year cultural doubling now being counting from the ToA and not the original ones. Plus when ToA expire and the new Temples expire you have to build yet another Temple. While the ToA is in force, your preexisting Temples won't cost maintence. So you are much better off keeping the Temples.

Scientic Age is competly broken in Conquests 1.22.

On which govt, since you are Religious, you do have the feasibility of switching govts when not in your GA. I don't know enough about your map, but it depends upon weather you have enough size 7+ cities & Market places to support the army you'd need to keep the peace and also the luxaries and Marketplaces to keep your citizens content. If you decide to be a war mongler, you might want to consider Fedulism when you enter the MA. Prior to Conquests a Religious civ would always beeline to Monarchy first simply because Monarchy was always faster to get to. Conquests though made Republic possible to get to much faster, including as the free tech. Conquests also made Market Places somewhat less important but having size 7+ cities much more important for Republic.

You've got the MGL / SGL thing backwards.
The check for forming a new MGL is:
1. Did an Elite win? If so,
2. Do I already have a Great Leader [left in from Vanilla] If not
3. Check the RNG. (Higher chance with HE than without]

The check for SGL is:
1. Do I have a tech no one else does? If so
2. Check the RNG. (Higher chance for sci civs)

Originally posted by cousLee
Currently, the English are building the ToA, and the only way I can start on it quickly is to trade Lit for Poly. Also, the Pyramids might trigger a GA for indust/rel/agri civs.
ToA VS GL....... great strategy debate there.

As for using up the SGL before elite battles, that is not a factor. AFAIK, you can still get a MGL if you have a SGL, but not visa-versa. Once you have a MGL, you can not get any more leaders of any flavor until the MGL is used (which would be quickly anyway).

As for a scientific age, would that not be MUCH better once I am out of despotism, and after I have expanded and grown my cities? The SGA is an increase of currently produced beakers, and frankly, right now I am not producing enough imo to warrent using a sgl for that.

As for not selling my currently built temples, I understand the reasoning for that, but being a rel civ, they are cheap enough to build. And I might need the gold in the meantime. Esp if I let one of the other civs build the GL, I will have to continue driving science.

Which brings up another question of persuit. Should I aim for monarchy or republic........ They both have their own benefits. Although the GQB(garrison quell bonus) under monarchy might be really needed once the ToA becomes obsolete.

Thanks for the replies, a good discussion thread is as fun as the game being talked about. Hey, if anyone wants me to upload the 4000bc save so you can try your hand at this map, it would not be a problem.

[Golden Bear]

Back on the original question. Yes, I do both. What's the point of not having fun with the game when I want to?

I frequently Cntl-Sh-Q and Quickstart a couple times if I don't like the terrain - like Tundra for instance. Or if I just played a similar start in the last game.

I'll also do a little exploring with the starting units to see if the game is going to be playable and then do 4000BC.

Other times, I'll just start wherever the game puts me.

I guess that I see no virtue in always playing "pure." Depending on my mood, I'll do any of the "cheats."

I do find that I enjoy starting with random civ and taking first start, blind, quite a bit.

I would not judge a player about how they decide to shape their personal "rules." Shoot, I do a reload if I mis-key sometimes. I'm still a nice person despite this.

Golden Bear

[cousLee]

Yeah, I forgot about the culture time doubling on the temples. Thats a very good reason to not sell them. I had never built the ToA before so was unfamiliar with all that goes with it. I went ahead and did the trade, with the Ottomans, and built the ToA. considering the time thing, I kinda regret it a little. Temples are cheap for the Babs to build and really not that intensive. I am enjoying the border strech tho. It would be best imo if the ToA didn't obsolete. The other "place a building" wonders don't. But alas too late for that consideration.

I used the second leader for SunZu's. That really is a great wonder. I can have many unit building cities. nothing like an instant (almost) army.

The English have been very stingy with their techs and i am quite annoyed with them, when my army finally does roll through the Ottomans, they will not be stopping at the border. The english had started building SunZu's and are pissed off enough to start demanding things. I was 1st to get invention and got another SGL, which I used right then for Leo's workshop. Invention was the one tech the English wanted bad enough to trade their two techs for, plus I cleaned out the Ottomans bank account + GPT for it. I knew if I traded to one, the other would get it too, so why not. Also, getting the gold and GPT, I can continue to drive research going for gunpowder.

The Vikings, of all civs, built the Great Library. I recently came in contact with them, so they will have to be my primary trading target. they also have tech parity with myself, the English, and the Babs. The Aztecs, whom share a continent with the Celts, are in bringing up a close rear, but are a couple of techs behind the big 4. All the others I have met so far are still only at mid- ancient age.

I chose monarcy and have made the switch. I have not hit my GA yet, but that wil be soon as my UU are heading the the "massive barbarian uprising" to try for some elites before moving them back across my empire to engage the ottomans. At least that is the plan. Would not be suprized tho if the Ottomans declare war as soon as the bulk of my army is the 8-9 turns away from the border.

You've got the MGL / SGL thing backwards.
The check for forming a new MGL is:
1. Did an Elite win? If so,
2. Do I already have a Great Leader [left in from Vanilla] If not
3. Check the RNG. (Higher chance with HE than without]

The check for SGL is:
1. Do I have a tech no one else does? If so
2. Check the RNG. (Higher chance for sci civs)

After re-reading the thread on this subject, that is correct. The debate was a bit confusing for a while and my memory is certainly not perfect. thanks for the refresh.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Golden Bear
Back on the original question. Yes, I do both. What's the point of not having fun with the game when I want to?

.....

Golden Bear

well said

[Addled Platypus]

NO

just cant do it

have fun for those how do

[Shogun Gunner]

I will restart to a new map if a start is horrible. Loads of jungle or tundra will ruin my day.

However, never restart the same map. If it sucked enough to restart, I'm not doing the same sucky start over again!