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How to win at Meso America

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  • How to win at Meso America

    Civs: this conquest features three major civs [Incas, Mayans, and Aztecs] and three minor civs. The differnce between major civs and minor civs is solely that major ones start with a size 3 city + a settler, while minor civs [normally AI only] only start with a settler. The Incas are their standard Agr + Exp, the Aztecs are their pre-Conquests Mil + Rel, the Mayas are Sci + Ind.

    UUs and units: There are three UUs, the Incans (and the Moche) have the Chican scout. (2/1/1 + all as roads + enslave)
    The Aztecs (and the northern minor tribe) have the Jaquar Warrior (2/1/2 + enslave)
    The Mayans (and the other minor tribe) have the Javalan Thrower (2/2/1 + ensalve)

    Conquestly, in the early era, numbers (and skilled units) are very imporant. You can not expect to win any engagement without losing some of your units, and to take a city you need a stack.

    The Incans and Aztecs should also strongly consider having Spear Men defenders (1/2/1) to cut down on loses defending.
    The Mayans don't really need the SpearMen thanks to the JTs, but can build Spears if they wish.

    There is no artillery type units at any time in this conquest.

    The only 2 MP units are the Jaquar Warriors UU and very late, the Silent Hunters. So wars are going to take time.

    But don't forget that the Chican Scout does not need roads to effectively move on them. This makes them the fastest units in enemy territory [but without possibility of retreat], but no advantage in built up sections of their own.

    Another unit of note is the Temple Guards [second era 1/3/1 like a Pike], 3 defense is quite powerful against earlier units, but unless it's forified on a hill or mountain can be beaten by 2 or 3 UUs. Spears upgrade to them. Unlike standard pikes, no resource required.

    Another one is a quixote bowmen (3/2/1) and warriors upgrade to them. Not particularly cost effective to build considering that silent hunters are right around the corner, but the upgrade it allows of your warriors you've previously been usuing as MP is great. No resource required for them.

    And the best of all units is the silent hunters (5/3/2 + stealth attack!) The best thing about stealth attack is you find out exactly how many units the AI has in the city. But you can't see the health levels of them.

    Also note that the Acali [like a Curragh, only can transport 1 unit] actually can't be upgraded to Great Acali; it's just there to keep you from building any Acali after you can build the Great Acali [like a caravel]. You'll need to disband Acali and rebuild them as Great Acali if you want to moderize your navy.

    Govts:

    Everyone starts in Depostism. Much like normal.
    The second govt adviable is Monarchy, late in the first era. Much like standard Monarchy.
    The last govt is Blood Rage, advaible late in the second era. Huge Unit Support, but reverts back to tile penalty.

    Conquestly, I highly recomend having your GA under Monarchy, which is the best govt.
    I don't see why you'd want to go into blood rage. All that govt does is drive up the cost, your better off stealing or reseraching it yourself if you want to mobilize (which the tech also allows) than trying to buy it.

    Terraign:

    Forest is impassible
    Jungle is 2/1/0 and can be irrigated and mined. [equaivlent to grassland + shield] It's a crime to clear wetlands with workers! And try to minimze founding cities directly on these valuable tiles.
    Plans is standard.
    Grassland is standard.
    Hills can be irrigated.
    Mountains produce 1 food, can be irrigated, roading produces 2 commerce, and you may found cities on them. Such cities result in extreme defensive bonsuses.

    Also note that Irrigation requires Terrace Farming, a second era tech.

    Great Wonders:

    Temple of the Moon: equalivent to ToE. So build it yourself with good timing.

    A. War Rage: Acts like Sun Tzus + maybe Battlefield Medicine? Requires the Monarchy govt, so if you build this wonder and then change to blood rage, you lose all those free baracks.

    Temple of the Sun: Places a N. Court House everywhere. [reduces corruption, 1 happy citizen, 1 culture] Also would fight WW, only there is NO WW govt in this conquest. (Copy from AoD?) Note that there is no FP. Probably the best wonder

    Spain's Tomb: Increases leader chance. (And also according to the editor doubles effectiveness of Spiha, missing) Not particlarly attractive unless your wanting armies.

    Temple of K. : 3 happy citizens in that city. (And also according to the editor Leos!) If you've built a lot of Warriors and now want Quix Bowmen, a great bargin.

    Palace of the Inca: Wall Street, and happy citizens? I only built it in my game because I got a SGL when I was close to completing 2 GWs and needed something to use the SGL on. (I had almost no cash)

    I think all civs can acheive a GA thru a combo of wonders if they aren't using their UU

    Small Wonders:

    Palace of the Masks: CIA + in that city only defeats steath attacks. Useless due to it's placement.

    Charcol Observory: Coperacus + 3 extra MP for naval units. But 600 shields! Too expensive for a normal build. But if you get a MGL at the right time, could be handy.

    Structures:

    N. Courthouse: Too expensive to normal build, build the Temple of Sun somewhere instead.

    Sac Altar: In addition to double cultural value of sacrifices, it reduces corruption. But it makes one citizen unhappy. So don't place in the first ring cities that don't need it. (Exception of the capital if going for one city culture.) Also requires a Temple, but
    even for a non religious civ, Temple + Sac Altar is cheaper than N CourtHouse.

    Fishing Docks: Late in the game, the food bonus (ONLY) of Harbors. (NO VET NAV UNITS) And on the expensive side so only build if it's really needed.

    Market Places: Requires the Tambo to build. Also much more expensive than normal, so basically a core city only build.

    Codex: Equivlent to the Libary, but less culture than normal.

    Ball Court: Requires rubber. Massive culture when going for cultural. And makes a lot of unhappy citizens content.

    Spiha: Acts likes another Temple, requires a Temple first.

    Tambo: Requires Llambas and makes 2 unhappy citizens content. I only build these for cities that I'm going to build MP.

    Victory Conditions:

    One City Culture: 2000
    Empire Wide culture : 7000
    Domination: 35% land [includes impassibale] + 50% pop

    Note that if you achieve domination the same turn as cultural, the domination one takes precedence.

    Also note that the empire wide one also requires you to have double the culutral of the closet oppoent just like epic. On a high level, this would greatly increases the amount of culture for empire wide you would need if you tried a Five City Challenge.
    [Plus if the opposing empire ever exceeded 5K culture, you'd have to wipe them completely out under a 5CC to win empire wide culturally]

    Use of Slaves:

    Don't be in a rush to sacrifice, make them work first.

    This can also allow you to achieve all three victory conditions the same turn with proper planning.

    Recomended baned human exploits:
    1. The standard list
    2. Buying workers.
    3. Attacking barbs with your UU. [To easy to rack up cultural points]

    Game stategy:

    Pretty much the same spectrum of pure builder to hybrid to war mongling tactics can be used to win.

    I do note that if you really want to achieve a domination victory, you may have to do some weird things like disbanding cultural

    buildings, like say the Codex after finishing the tech trade.

    Known AI problem:

    For some reason the AI has severe problems playing the Aztec AI; when I play the Incas, the Mayan AI conquers them.
    When I play the Mayas and leave the Aztecs alone [going after all the minor tribes], the Moche achieves a higher score than the Aztecs.

    Playing as the Incas:

    In early game, Found cities along rivers and fresh water lakes where possible to take advantage of the extra food early. [And you have plenty of them]
    Remember to found some cities along the edge of passable terraign to keep barbs from coming. Your eastern and souther bounders are quite open to the barbs if you don't found cities to bring the first row of impassible terraign into your cultural boundary.

    In addition, use the options to remove the bottom right windows so you can see what your doing in the bottom right hand corner of the map.

    You'll pay full price on every city improvement, so the War Rage wonder is particlarly attractive.

    Domination victory condition requires something like all of South America.

    Playing as the Aztecs:

    Your terriagn is perhaps the dryist, and there is no irrigation until the second age, so primarly expand south which is much higher

    quality. But don't totally negleat the north, if you don't found cities close enough to the northern border, this would result in a open northern border with barbs.

    Many improvements are half priced thanks to being both militerstic and relgious. In addition, your switch to Monarchy will only cost 2 turns of anarchy.

    Domination victory conditions requires something like all of North America.

    Playing as the Mayans:

    Your start with an embarsement of riches in terraign, even though your not along a river. (There is one nearby, and so there is an evenual path to irrigate the plains.)

    In the mean time use a tight city spacing format near the capital, planting the cities along the coast to help work those jungle tiles, which you should road and mine. It would be a crime to found a city on jungle in that area.

    Being industrious will get your core improved 50% faster, and Codex's are half price to you. In addition, you have a larger chance of getting a SGL upon getting a tech. In my game, I actually got a SGL upon discovering the tech allowing Temple of the Moon. The poor AI had no chance after that.

    A domination victory probably can not be had without fighting at least one of the major civs. The Incan AI will plant a few cities in Northern portion of South America, making you fight both the Moche and the Incans to get and keep control of Northern south america.

    [Which you would need if you don't annex the Aztecs] In addition, if you wait too long the O. and T. minor civs cities will be jumbled up as well.
    Last edited by joncnunn; May 26, 2005, 17:13.
    1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
    Templar Science Minister
    AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

  • #2
    I just finished this conquest following the advices:
    I played with the Maya, Monarch level, Cultre victory.
    It was very easy: I stayed in peace for a while, then I declare war to Toltecs and Olmecs and acquired a lot of slaves. I made them work my land.
    Using prebuilds I completed the temple of the moon
    and the temple of the sun in my capital, then I built
    a sacrifical altar. I had about 400 culture point at that time. Then I started to sacrifice my slaves,
    reaching 2000 points 5 turn after.

    Comment


    • #3
      I used a similar strategy both times.

      do a REX until you run out of room. Then build a temple and barracks and start pumping out your uu. I don't like to go to war too soon or you get a GA too early. Though not a problem the second game as the Inca, as their uu isn't available right off the bat.

      The first game as the Aztecs I was more going for a domination victory (though I think I hit a victory point victory unintentionally first). The second game as the Inca I took over the nearest tribe. And went to war with the Maya a little bit (though they can be tough sometimes) and another minor tribe. I was sacrificing all their workers so I hit a victory point just as I was entering the Panama area in my conquests.

      Comment


      • #4
        Dis, you won by culture both times. There's no special VP scoring rules in this conquest. But sacrifing workers causes the city they are sacrified in to gain culture.

        Everyone's UU requires the same time in this conquest.
        1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
        Templar Science Minister
        AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

        Comment


        • #5
          yeah I meant culture. I built the sacrificial alter in my capitol and went to appeasing the gods.

          This is a fairly easy scenario. But the rough terrain can sometimes slow you down. As you don't have heavily powerful units. And a unit with a defense of 2 in hill, mountains or jungle can sometimes pose problems.

          Comment

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