Leaving chieftain

[Tomasz]

Ok, I want to leave chieftain for good now. The main problems I encountered when I went to higher levels is that:

- I tend to lose every battle
- AI always get much more ahead of me in research
- And Im never a super power like im always in chieftain :P

Can you give me any advice about:

- what to research first
- how far apart should i put cities
- should I escort my settlers at all times
- what policies should I undertake with AI in order to be polite with most of them.
-and any other advices u think might be useful

I always go on republic and then democracy. And I never have any escorting units around my settlers.


cheers in advance,


Tomasz

[vmxa1]

Re: Leaving chieftain

Originally posted by Tomasz

"- I tend to lose every battle"

That will not continue as long as you have equal units.

"- AI always get much more ahead of me in research"

This is due to not developing your empire effectively as you should be able to out do them at Warlord. It could take a bit as the AI will trade with each other and if they pop a lot of huts, could get a good start. You should be in the action by the second or third tier in the ancient age.

"- And Im never a super power like im always in chieftain :P"

See number one.


"- what to research first"

At warlord you are free to do it nayway you want. Often, if you have alphabet, going for Pjilo beeline is effective.

:- how far apart should i put cities"

If you are not stuck on a small island, CxxC should be fine.

"- should I escort my settlers at all times"

Yes, until you are know what to expect. IOW, if sending to the outer areas, always cover them. Unless you know the land is cleared.

"- what policies should I undertake with AI in order to be polite with most of them."

Don't know, I never care about being polite. They must die at some point anyway.

"-and any other advices u think might be useful"
Manage workers carefully, especially at the start of the game.

"I always go on republic and then democracy. And I never have any escorting units around my settlers."

Well I never go to Demo, but I almost never am religious, so one change is about par for me.

As I said, as long as you know the area is clear of barbs or other civs, send them out naked. If not cover them. What does the form of government have to do with sending settlers out anyway?

If you have roads to the next location, then it is probably safe to send them out, but you will likely need a garrison anyway.

Right now I have just killed the last of the two civs on my contient and went to the middle ages. I have a number of units out as lookouts and I know a large chunk of land is open, but safe. I can send settlers out safely, until one of the two other civs at war with me manage to show up on this contient.

Go get em. Start a thread for your game if it does not go well. Post it and see what ideas and advice comes out of it.

[Solomwi]

Well, I was about to start on the settler escort thing, but it looks like you're ahead of me there. What I was going to say is that one of the biggest changes to my game between warlord and regent was that I stopped going overboard on defense. At warlord, every settler had to be escorted and every town needed two defenders, or so I thought. I could get away with it because I could outproduce the AI so overwhelmingly, but it wasn't really a good thing to do. Once I cut that back, eliminating the need for hordes of spearmen, I could build and support rather large stacks of swords and horses and keep the AI out of my civ by hitting them first.

On higher levels, I defend only towns that can be reached in one turn, make use of a single defender covering two or more towns (vs. barbs, primarily), and typically don't escort my settlers, though that's not a hard and fast rule. When it won't slow the settler down, I'll escort him, but I'm not going to hold a new city up for 3 or 4 turns waiting on a spearman unless the settler is going somewhere particularly perilous.

On the battles, why do you lose? Are you attacking with obsolete units? Are you factoring in defense bonuses? Are you attacking with regulars against vets? Need more information to help here.

On research, are you trading? Up through about monarch, you should be able to easily outpace the AI without trading, eventually, but early on, you might need to trade even at warlord, especially if one or more of your neighbors is expansionist. Secondly, make sure all tiles being worked in your cities are roaded, and maximize use of river tiles. These two things will maximize the raw commerce being generated, in turn giving you the most you can get with which to research. Population is also key. More people means more tiles being worked means more shields, more gold and more research. There's a balancing act to this, though, as you need workers out there improving the tiles. Generally, the worker is going to benefit you more in the long run than a citizen working a tile, since that citizen will be replaced fairly soon after you build the worker. If you have citizens working unimproved tiles, you need more workers.

You can be a superpower at higher levels. It just takes a little longer and requires a little closer attention to details.

What to research first: heavily game dependent. If you're a commercial civ, you may well want to research writing first, for the philosophy beeline. If you're non-expansionist, you may want pottery first, in order to get that granary up in your capital and start pumping out settlers. If you're on an archipelago map, you may want alphabet, in order to get a couple of curraghs out exploring and get a jump on map making. It all depends, but the rule is to take a few minutes during your first turn and figure out which direction will benefit you more.

I prefer CxxC spacing, allowing for breaking the pattern if a better site is one tile away. Some prefer CxxxC, to allow growing room post-sanitation. Again, it can be map-dependent. If you have plenty of land into which to expand, tiles lying idle won't be such a big deal as if you're on a relatively small island all by yourself or squeezed in between a few neighbors. I've found CxxC to be more powerful when it counts, in the early game, in most all situations, though.

Every once in a while, I may throw a backwards AI an obsolete tech to get them back to polite, but I can't say I'm ever overly concerned about AI attitude. They're all going to be pretty irate with me eventually.

Don't use entertainers as a general rule. The luxury slider can be pretty powerful early on when it keeps a citizen working a tile. As you get used to using the luxury slider, you'll find some situations in which an entertainer is more efficient, but not many. If I have to have a specialist for a turn or two early, I'd rather it be a taxman or scientist (but make sure the scientist actually shaves research time or allows you to bump research down a notch before using it).

I find democracy to be pretty useless, now that I've broken myself of that faster worker addiction. Unit support in C3C for republic means that the financial difference in the two may be negligible, or may actually work in republic's favor (as I've found several times). Lower war weariness more than makes up for the slower workers. Add in that you have to research two optional techs and go through an anarchy to get to democracy, and I just don't see the allure. I'd rather plow ahead into the industrial age and let the AI research those two techs for me at their leisure.

Hope some of this helps, and as things come to me, I'll mention them. Good luck.

[joncnunn]

Re: Leaving chieftain

The only affects in combat that's difficulty level based is odds against barbs.

And considering that the best barb unit is 2/1/2, I'm not sure why they bothered with so many different ratios.

Falling behind in techs on Warlord level where you still have cheaper techs than the AI (just not as much as Cheiftian) is almost always not enough roads.

What to research first:

Pottery at best rate when you don't start with it and Writting at 1 beaker [min slider producing some science] in 50 turns when starting with Alphabet are the two most popular starting techs.

At warlord, you really can't screw up on city placement badly enough to lose.

Escorting settlers : depends upon how many turns their going to be outside your cultural boundary before they found the next city.

AI relations on Warlord: Basically don't break agreements. Including don't trade with a doomed AI / an AI likely to lose it's trade connection.

Build at least a few offensive military units.

It's difficult to play badly enough to lose on warlord. Except refusing to build roads on worked tiles and mining/irrigation, etc.

Originally posted by Tomasz
Ok, I want to leave chieftain for good now. The main problems I encountered when I went to higher levels is that:

- I tend to lose every battle
- AI always get much more ahead of me in research
- And Im never a super power like im always in chieftain :P

Can you give me any advice about:

- what to research first
- how far apart should i put cities
- should I escort my settlers at all times
- what policies should I undertake with AI in order to be polite with most of them.
-and any other advices u think might be useful

I always go on republic and then democracy. And I never have any escorting units around my settlers.


cheers in advance,


Tomasz

[Tomasz]

Cheers mates for the replies. Ill use all of your advice the next time Ill play.

The main thing with workers that I always use is automate them, but now Ill govern them individualy for the first turns.

Ill start a new thread for my new game . We'll see how that will come out :P.

cheers again for all of the long replies.


Tomasz

[Aqualung71]

A very brief overview for moving up to the next levels:

1. Prioritise Granaries - this will enable you to grow much quicker than the AI

2. Build plenty of Workers - more than you think you will need. Sending a Settler out to claim ground that is unimproved is next to useless. You must ensure that every tile worked by a Labourer is improved (ie, roaded first, then mined in the case of GL under Despotism, or irrigated if the tile includes bonus food such as Cows or Wheat). In the early game, keeping up your Worker output is often even more important than building new Settlers. Try not to have Labourers working unimproved tiles.


If you can do those two things effectively, you will find yourself shooting up to Regent and even Monarch levels quite quickly

[Dis]

Re: Leaving chieftain

Originally posted by Tomasz
Ok, I want to leave chieftain for good now. The main problems I encountered when I went to higher levels is that:

- I tend to lose every battle
- AI always get much more ahead of me in research
- And Im never a super power like im always in chieftain :P

Can you give me any advice about:

- what to research first
- how far apart should i put cities
- should I escort my settlers at all times
- what policies should I undertake with AI in order to be polite with most of them.
-and any other advices u think might be useful

I always go on republic and then democracy. And I never have any escorting units around my settlers.


cheers in advance,


Tomasz

one bit of advice that some peopel don't do (I'm not sure if you are doing it) is mining grassland tiles. It took a while for me to get rid of the habit of irrigating grasslands from civ2. Mines are necessary to compete with the AI.

what to research first is subjective. I prefer to research pottery (graneries) first if I don't have it. Then I research philosphy. I usually take code of laws as my first tech. But if war is imminent I'll try to acquire Iron Working.

I don't escort my settlers hardly at all. I doubt you will need to at the lower levels. But it helps to have a couple warriors around just in case. Occasionally I'll lose a settler. It's not a big deal because I still always win my Monarch games (I should move up a level too ).

Trade with the AI. If I don't want to go to war with them, then I usually give them what they want. You should always exchange techs with the ai in the ancient age. It's the only way to quickly get out of it (or you'll be left behind because the AI is trading with each other). Try to trade your newly acquired techs with everyone in the same turn (so you can get money each time). The only time I might not trade is if I want to finish building a wonder before I trade (so the AI doesn't beat me to it). I rarely build ancient age wonders btw. They are difficult to get. But if I do manage to get a scientific leader (conquests expansion only), then I'll build the pyramids.

P.S. about the settler escorting- I failed to mention I only play with sedentary barbarians. I never cared for high levels. At high levels you should definately escort your settlers.

[Tomasz]

And how do i get a scientific leader? And are there other types of leaders except the military ones? How do I get them?

Tomasz

[joncnunn]

To aquire a SGL:
2% chance if you research a tech no one else has. (5% if Scientific)

So many other things are going on using the same RNG that the trials are independant. (If you go 30 techs without a SGL, the odds of the next one getting a SGL are not affected.)

So to maximime your SGLs:

1. Play a Scientific Civ.

2. Aquire such a large tech lead that you are first in the world to every single tech. (Becomes more and more difficult as difficulty level increases.)

This is kind of similar to getting MGLs, you have to maximize the number of chances for an elite no star to fight where the probability of the elite unit losing is less than probability of getting a MGL. (Retreat with 1 HP remaining NOT a loss)

[Dis]

you really can't count on getting scientific leaders, they are just an added bonus. But scientific civs aren't too bad to play. Scientific/commercial is a good combo. or scientific/agricultural.

[vmxa1]

Note that there is an option to allow or disallow SGl in a game.

[joncnunn]

Also note that if you change victory conditions of a mod to non-default -> No SGLs. (In 1.22)

[eris]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Also note that if you change victory conditions of a mod to non-default -> No SGLs. (In 1.22)

This is contrary to my experience. I just finished a game as the Dutch. I was intending "aggressive seamanship" and did not plan on being nice to other civs. Therefore I turned off Diplomatic Victory. (Who needs your Gracious attitude, now? Hmmm?) An SGL got me Bach's Cathedral and my luxury-starved people loved it.

[joncnunn]

I'm refering to changing victory modes within the editor; not turning off on the start game menu.

As to turning off Diplomatic Victory when not intending UN victory, leave it on and build the UN to filibuster the motion to establish a world govt.

[Tomasz]

I have two more questions:

Is it possible to take a city with a number 1 without destroying it?

Can I take a city together with its cultural influence, like its done in the scenarios?

Tomasz